WorldComm Fiber Cut????

Internet_Guy · July 8, 2002, 4:22pm

HHHMMM... Very interesting. Someone who believes what a carrier really tells them.

If you go to the MFN homepage & click on the graphs listed below, then you might see that possibly the data being displayed is both inaccurate, as well as misleading.

Go to SJC OC3 Los Angeles, to OC192 SJC3 to SJC4, to OC12 MaeW ATM, OC48 # 2 for IAD to NYR, IAD # 2 to PAIX VA OC48, DCA2 to DFW2 OC48, PAIX OC12 to Core1.sjc, NPA - DS3 to San Jose, LGA1 OC192#2 to IAD, LGA1 OC48 to Chicago, NYC Backbone OC192 to LGA2, NYC Backbone OC48 # 2 to core3.lga1, ETC...

Each one of these graphs shows abnormalities in the flow of internet data, such as "pits", spikes, square wave function graphs, clipping on some waveforms, etc.

This is not limited to MFN. I have observed this on other similiar types of Sundry network data collection systems.

It is not easy to see HOW BAD the problem is with these Sundry data collection systems, UNTIL you expand the MRTG graph. Once this is done, then you can really see how bad the integrity of the collected data really is. A small MRTG graph really masks the problems associated with the data which is being displayed. With a larger graph, you definately see the problems associated with todays Sundry systems.

As there is no way to really verify the QUALITY or INTEGRITY of the data being displayed, then I submit as fact, that what is being shown here is really in a grey area, at best.

So who really knows how correct, the data which is being displayed on the MFN home page is really is ?

Cause with the clipping, spiking, pits, & squarewave graphs, small graphing scale being shown, definately, I have my doubts ...

One would also wonder, that if this data collection system is used by MFN to generate bills for customers of MFN who are charged by the Megabyte, what these customers bills look like & HOW accurate these bills really are...

Regards,

Mike Martin.

Leo_Bicknell1 · July 8, 2002, 4:41pm

In a message written on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 06:22:00AM -1000, Internet Guy wrote:

Each one of these graphs shows abnormalities in the flow of internet data,
such as "pits", spikes, square wave function graphs, clipping on some
waveforms, etc.

You have drawn an incorrect conclusion. While several of these
graphs have interesting shapes, they are not all abnormalities.
Several are graphing errors. Several are human errors (graphing
the wrong thing). Several are oddball traffic patterns due to
strange customer usage. None of that indicates abnormal flow.

One of my favorite things was working with people who do simulcasts
of things like Victoria Secret's and The Drew Carey Show. At the
top of the hour a huge spike, and at the bottom of the hour a
perfect drop off. A half hour square function on every graph in
the network. Doesn't mean anything was wrong. Rebalancing peers,
dealing with outages, customers doing backups, installing and
testing, etc. It all happens daily on a big network, and can
produce some really odd graphs.

As there is no way to really verify the QUALITY or INTEGRITY of the data
being displayed, then I submit as fact, that what is being shown here is
really in a grey area, at best.

So who really knows how correct, the data which is being displayed on the
MFN home page is really is ?

As I work for MFN, all I can say in a public forum is that relying
on any one tool is foolish. If you use more than one tool, you
can compare them and determine which is correct. Assuming that the
graphs we make public are the only graphs we have would be a bad
mistake.

There's also the obvious, if you can "show int" on the box, you can
always double check a graph, in real time anyway.

Majdi_S_Abbas1 · July 8, 2002, 4:45pm

One might also wonder why a competitor of MFN's is posting vague
accusations about statistic collection and billing on NANOG.

204.71.43.119 == ie-dhcp-119.ie.cw.net

Coincidence?

--msa

Richard_A_Steenbegen · July 8, 2002, 4:54pm

If you go to the MFN homepage & click on the graphs listed below, then you
might see that possibly the data being displayed is both inaccurate, as
well as misleading.

If you mean inaccurate as in "not updated in years" or "missing 95% of
their circuits", than yes. If you mean inaccurate as in intentionally
fudged, than no.

Look at the bottom of http://west-boot.mfnx.net/traffic/

And it wasn't even accurate then. They've obviously updated SOME things
since then (the OC48/OC192s), but most of the circuits listed there have
been gone for years, or havn't been graphed in years.

Go to SJC OC3 Los Angeles, to OC192 SJC3 to SJC4, to OC12 MaeW ATM, OC48 #
2 for IAD to NYR, IAD # 2 to PAIX VA OC48, DCA2 to DFW2 OC48, PAIX OC12 to
Core1.sjc, NPA - DS3 to San Jose, LGA1 OC192#2 to IAD, LGA1 OC48 to
Chicago, NYC Backbone OC192 to LGA2, NYC Backbone OC48 # 2 to core3.lga1,
ETC...

Each one of these graphs shows abnormalities in the flow of internet data,
such as "pits", spikes, square wave function graphs, clipping on some
waveforms, etc.

Thats just how the internet works. Traffic is busting constantly. There is
already a smoothing effect just because these are 5 minute samples. If you
were to look at instantaneous values, they would be significantly more
spikey.

In general there are two well-known MRTG display problems:

* When MRTG does not collect data, it displays a flatline for both in and
  out based on the last rate it calculated. This can be potentially
  misleading, and newer graphing systems like RRDTool simply leave the
  area blank.
* Rateup breaks at > a signed 32 bit int of Bits/sec, 2^31Bps. If you
  find some graphs doing > 2Gbps, you'll see the lines mysterious drop off
  the graph completely.

As for some of the truely bizaare graphs you cite, such as:
http://west-boot.mfnx.net/traffic/sjc/sjc-lax-oc3.html

I can't explain how that managed to get polled, but you'll note that the
dates on all of those graphs are extremely old, such as June 15 2001. Lets
just chalk it up to the first category of "noone cares enough to update
those stupid MRTG's".

It is not easy to see HOW BAD the problem is with these Sundry data
collection systems, UNTIL you expand the MRTG graph. Once this is done,
then you can really see how bad the integrity of the collected data really
is. A small MRTG graph really masks the problems associated with the data
which is being displayed. With a larger graph, you definately see the
problems associated with todays Sundry systems.

This is easily one of the stupidest things I have read in a long time. If
you want to expand the graph, you must expand the frequency of data
collection. There is nothing sundry about it. Put the crack pipe down and
step away from the keyboard.

One would also wonder, that if this data collection system is used by MFN
to generate bills for customers of MFN who are charged by the Megabyte,
what these customers bills look like & HOW accurate these bills really
are...

The graphs on west-boot have absolutily no relation to customer billing.
They are barely updated by anyone, and only looked at by nosey people such
as myself. MFN has better things to do with their limited resources right
now, and if I was a customer I'd rather they take care of the important
things first.

Pawlukiewicz_Jane · July 8, 2002, 6:07pm

This is too funny.

I was referring to the two links at the top, namely:

AboveNet NOC Announcement

and

Current Network Issues

These take you to pages where mfn posts any problems they think they are
having with their network. which is just like all the other sites Sean
was posting about. They are data points. Not independent data points but
they are still data points.

Who the hell looks at the graphs?

Jane

Internet Guy wrote: