what about 48 bits?

In article <201004071023.o37ANtww018405@aurora.sol.net>, Joe Greco
<jgreco@ns.sol.net> writes

>>interoperability and backwards compatibility were the tipping points.
>
>Ah, yes, backwards compatibility: implementing the fantastic feature of
>breaking the network...

By "backwards compatibility" I mean the ability to use the new LAN from
a laptop that didn't have an Ethernet connection built in, and didn't
have an optional [proprietary] internal Ethernet card available either.

There are a lot of things to target with the term, I was picking
conveniently. :slight_smile:

>we all remember the fun of what happened when
>someone incorrectly unhooked a 10base2 network segment; D-Link managed
>to one-up that on the theoretically more-robust 10baseT/UTP by
>introducing a card that'd break your network when you powered off the
>attached PC.

That tale of woe doesn't really sound like it's the fault of backwards
compatibility.

No, but I remember network people talking gleefully about the benefits of
10baseT (and come on - it has lots), and how it fixed the "someone needed
to move a PC and disconnected the cables from the T rather than the T
from the NIC" problem... and along came D-Link (and some other vendors
I think) with the brilliant idea of a host-integrated hub.

Now, remember, some network guys walked around with new-in-bag BNC T's in
their pocket because they'd run across someone who disappeared a T every
month or two, and there's great power in turning your back, twiddling for
a few seconds, and then being able to holler "Network's back up!"...

Unfortunately, power-cycling crashed PC's is (was?) pretty common, and
many users are (were?) also trained to shut off PC's when done, so here
you've introduced something that is by-design going to fail periodically.
Not just if-and-when someone decides to move a computer and screws it up.
Of course, if someone actually removes the PC in question, and does not
realize that the network actually feeds _through_ the PC, um, well, you
cannot just whip a T out of your pocket to "fix" the network.

To me, this is a Dilbert-class engineering failure. I would imagine that
if you could implement a hub on the network card, the same chip(s) would
work in an external tin can with a separate power supply. Designing a
product that actually exhibits a worse failure mode than 10base2 is ...
strange to me.

I was sarcastically referring to this as "backwards compatibility",
possibly also with New Enhanced Features, ha ha.

Didn't the operational status of the LAX immigration
department fall to zero for almost a whole day, once; as a result of a
rogue network card crashing the LAN?

Probably. Not my area of the country. There are plenty of examples of
networking disasters. :wink:

... JG

I have in my gear museum a fairly large box with a couple of this type of 'hub
on a card' installed. And in this particular case, it made perfect sense, as
the box is an Evergreen Systems CAPserver, and has 16 486 single-board
computers tied to two 8-port hub cards (two ports on each modular plug, too),
with....wait for it... a 10Base-2 uplink. These were used mostly for remote
network access and remote desktop access.

If you want more data on this old and odd box, see
http://www.bomara.com/Eversys/capserver2300.htm

I can see a hub card being useful in an old NetWare server setting, though,
since if the server went down you might as well not have a network in the first
place, in that use case.

This reminds of me of the failure-mode-within-a-failure-mode of 10b2 with
vaxstation2000's using vms's vaxcluster software. Unplugging the 10b2 gave
you a window of about 10 seconds before one by one every vaxstation2000
would bugcheck. I was always rather astonished that nobody at DEC either
noticed it, or thought it was a very big deal because the bug survived a
long time.

Mike

This reminds of me of the failure-mode-within-a-failure-mode of 10b2 with
vaxstation2000's using vms's vaxcluster software. Unplugging the 10b2 gave
you a window of about 10 seconds before one by one every vaxstation2000
would bugcheck. I was always rather astonished that nobody at DEC either
noticed it, or thought it was a very big deal because the bug survived a
long time.

Mike

In article <201004071118.o37BIvK1022393@aurora.sol.net>, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> writes

Unfortunately, power-cycling crashed PC's is (was?) pretty common, and
many users are (were?) also trained to shut off PC's when done, so here
you've introduced something that is by-design going to fail periodically.

OK, I agree that fitting a PC-powered hub into a client PC isn't the best decision in the world. But losing one segment of a 10Base-T LAN (which was the technology I used) is not the end of the world, and I took the precaution of installing the hub in my server.

Despite these potential operational banana skins, it was still a product that tipped me irrevocably into the world of Ethernet (having earlier toyed with pale imitations).