All:
I realize this might be a bit of a fool's errand, but I'm trying to determine if Verizon will speak BGP with FiOS business customers. Their website is relatively lean on details. Everything that mentions BGP points to VZB services, which does not appear to include FiOS. Looking at the routing table, I do see several non-VZ ASNs downstream of AS19262, so it looks like it might be possible.
If that is the case, could anyone lend any insight to get past the "what is BGP?" response that likely awaits from their salescritters?
jms
No. If you want to do BGP with Verizon, you have to buy a T1 at 10
times the cost and 1/10th of the speed.
Though I'd love to discover I'm mistaken about that. 
Regards,
Bill Herrin
Haha true that. How else would.they.push their atm and.Ethernet products.
chris
A cost I could live with. It's the fact that they won't sell me BGP
service in the FiOS product line *at all* that makes me pine for the
days of FCC mandated unbundling.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
A cost I could live with. It's the fact that they won't sell me BGP
service in the FiOS product line *at all* that makes me pine for the
days of FCC mandated unbundling.
Having the same problem with Comcast, even on there business Cable service they wont do BGP with me.
-Nathan
Comcast same deal ethernet only
chris
Yep, I got a quote for that, 7K a month.... yet I can get 100 meg on a gig circuit for $400 bucks from them in a datacenter. Oh, and the 7K is NOT to cover build out, did I forget to mention that node for my area is in MY backyard???
-Nathan
So.... techsupport folks aside.. the product they sell is:
A) DHCP only, single address, dynamic
B) Single Static address (uplift of 25$/month I believe?)
C) 5 ips STATICALLY ROUTED AS /32's!! (WTF??) for 25$ above the
option-B above/month.
You can't bring your own space
You can't do BGP
You can get more than 5 ips (in 5 ip chunks I believe) for 25$/month
per chunk...
ip address rental, welcome to 1999!
Also, I know that on 701 the rate of BGP to non-BGP customers was
increasing and was at ~30% or so as of ~2007... You'd think that 19262
would see that, see the business opportunity and offer it? Though, I
suppose they DO see the business opportunity: "You want bgp? you want
to bring your own ips? you want more than a DHCP address? Pay up, a
lot."
weee! fun times! At some point there was fairly serious talk of moving
the FIOS product into the last-mile offering for 701 customers as
well, guess that didn't happen? 
Seems, to me at least, like the PON
technology would be a win/win for large ISP customers... easy upgrade
paths (dial-on-demand-bandwidth almost?) and simple CPE deployments:
"Ethernet? sure it's available!"
-chris
So I have to ask you the big question...
Why do you want to do BGP with Comcast or Verizon ? (Over FIOS or Cable ?)
Is the intent to Peer with their network ? (which they will rightfully only allow on bigger fatter connections)..
or
Are you trying to delivery your IP's to a End Customer behind that FIOS / Cable Connection ? ...
(there a ways to accomplish this without needing their cooperation..)
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet& Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, Fl 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: Support@Snappydsl.net
So I have to ask you the big question...
Why do you want to do BGP with Comcast or Verizon ? (Over FIOS or Cable ?)
Is the intent to Peer with their network ? (which they will rightfully only
allow on bigger fatter connections)..
'peer' has many connotations, I think most of the cases of it over
FIOS are just: "I want bgp so I can announce my prefixes, and see
yours/default/etc" (which leads to 'multihoming' and other normal (for
businesses) activities on the Internet.
or
Are you trying to delivery your IP's to a End Customer behind that FIOS /
Cable Connection ? ...
(there a ways to accomplish this without needing their cooperation..)
or you are multihomed
or you want some semblence of 'the internet is down' so other bits of
your infrastructure can take over
or you want ... a thousand other things.
Why do you want to do BGP with Comcast or Verizon ? (Over FIOS or Cable ?)
To gain redundancy for a consulting client.
Is the intent to Peer with their network ? (which they will rightfully only allow on bigger fatter connections)..
I think you mean "higher margin connections" 
As far as I know, most major carriers will still sell you a T1 for Internet access (and even BGP!) if you want it.
Are you trying to delivery your IP's to a End Customer behind that FIOS / Cable Connection ? ...
(there a ways to accomplish this without needing their cooperation..)
Running BGP over a tunnel is one (albeit sub-optimal) option, but I don't know of any providers that sell such a service.
All of the other options have varying degrees of downside, i.e. how much of an outage are you willing to put up with when provider A fails, transferring DNS records, etc.
jms
Peering is generally for a comercial endevor to my understandind fios
is a residential service so which are you trying to accomplish
A) DHCP only, single address, dynamic
B) Single Static address (uplift of 25$/month I believe?)
I think that might be $40/mo now, but I could be mistaken.
Also, I know that on 701 the rate of BGP to non-BGP customers was
increasing and was at ~30% or so as of ~2007... You'd think that 19262
would see that, see the business opportunity and offer it? Though, I
suppose they DO see the business opportunity: "You want bgp? you want
to bring your own ips? you want more than a DHCP address? Pay up, a
lot."
I wonder if something is cooking there. When I look at a full BGP view, I see quite a few ASNs downstream of 19262, beyond some that appear to be internal VZ ASNs:
* 12.195.9.0/24 x.x.x.x 701 19262 30079
* 65.198.73.0/24 x.x.x.x 701 19262 40321
* 68.236.226.0/24 x.x.x.x 701 19262 18762
* 137.71.229.0/24 x.x.x.x 701 19262 20258
* 141.155.220.0/24 x.x.x.x 701 19262 36512
* 143.165.216.0/21 x.x.x.x 701 19262 2923
.....
jms
4 of the 6 downstreams are multihomed. Only 40321 (Emigrant Bank) and 18762
(Dominick & Dominick LLC) are single homed to 19262 (Verizon Online LLC).
-Grant
4 of the 6 downstreams are multihomed. Only 40321 (Emigrant Bank)
and 18762 (Dominick & Dominick LLC) are single homed to 19262 (Verizon
Online LLC).
yup... vz had for quite some time actual 'network' customers behind
19262, as part of larger multi-site deals. they also ran a 'private
mpls vpn' across that same core for a time (and likely still do...)
-chris
'peering' really is a loaded term...
'settlement free peering' ?
'bgp peering' ?
there are other meanings as well, but I think in the case the person I
responded (Faisal?) was asking about he meant 'settlement free
peering', which I don't think is what Justin meant, Justin just wants
the same as most of the bgp speakers want: "multihoming".
-chris
What is the SLA for FIOS? I believe that FIOS uses either PON or GPON
technology where a single data wavelength is split up to 32 times resulting
in a shared pipe back to the CO. Does Verizon offer any SLA at all for FIOS?
On the other hand Verizon Wireless offers BGP peering for business
customers, but lacks geographically-dispersed peering points with their
wired network, which results in unusually high round trip latencies.
Sorry, by saying Peering I mean any kind of direct peering..
As to the other reason for running BGP, there are technical solutions to get around this 'lack of cooperation'.
Personally speaking, asking for BGP peering on a 'resi' grade service is like going to McDonalds, and asking for a cooking lesson from their Head Chef.
No flame or offense intended.
Take us for example, we are an independent service provider, technically, can we do bgp over a DSL connection, the answer is yes, can we 'route' a class 'C' for someone purchasing a resi dsl service, the answer is yes...
Now the real question you are asking ... (or complaining about) .... is Do we want to do this ? from a business perspective ..answer is NO..... from a Technical perspective... do we have the desire to support it ? ... answer is NO... .. Complex Routing and resi connections just don't mix ...
So if we don't want to do this, why do you think or feel that VZ or any other Large provider should do this ?
(besides. there is this other minor issue that their infrastructure deployed to serve FIOS / Cable / ADSL / UVerse is not designed nor capable of doing BGP with end-user connection / routers.. ).
Regards.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet& Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, Fl 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: Support@Snappydsl.net
C) 5 ips STATICALLY ROUTED AS /32's!! (WTF??) for 25$ above the
option-B above/month.
And people wonder why Verizon is the first to whine about routing table growth from deaggregation?
In all seriousness, though, I don't think they are routed as /32s. I think that's one for the Verizon CPE,
5 for your devices all routed as a single /29.
Owen
C) 5 ips STATICALLY ROUTED AS /32's!! (WTF??) for 25$ above the
option-B above/month.
And people wonder why Verizon is the first to whine about routing table growth from deaggregation?
eh, these end up (I think) aggregated on the edge router, so you get 5
/32's from a /23 (or the like) routed to the edge layer3 device. not
as bloaty for the rest of their network as it at first seems.
In all seriousness, though, I don't think they are routed as /32s. I think that's one for the Verizon CPE,
5 for your devices all routed as a single /29.
owen, seen the config on a live router, yes they are routed as /32's
to the VC you are connected to. I probably have the config for my old
link in IM/email somewhere. apparently their automation either doesn't
understand CIDR, or it was 'too expensive' to make the automation do
CIDR once they started to offer extra ips to the business customers.
-chris