Hi,
I discovered that the Budapest cable company was using VDLS to provide services up to 500 megs into the buildings where my flats are located. VDSL is a pretty old standard. I recollect people talking about it back in 1998.
Is it being heavily deployed in Last Mile networks state side?
Hey Rod,Are you sure they’re using VDSL (I’m assuming you mean VDSL2 which is still in fairly wide use around the world)? 500mbit VDSL2 would have a very short run limitation afaik. It wouldn’t be last mile, more like last meter. 
It’s not super-widely used in the US today since Verizon and others have built out increasing FTTH networks and always had to compete with DOCSIS based services which are very widespread here, though I wouldn’t be surprised if it was still frequently the “better than satellite!” service available in some rural areas that aren’t too hard to reach with cabling. A decade ago, you would’ve seen a lot more VDSL2 deployments here in the US, though usually no more than 25 or 50 mbit capacity for the end-user.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VDSL_and_VDSL2_deployments has a bunch of interesting details though I can attest to some of them being fairly out of date.
Sounds more like an in-building Gfast deployment, which
is /technically/ a kind of DSL. To get 500Mb on a single pair I think
you would need a distance shorter than 1000ft. This is pretty recent
tech, and a multi dwelling scenario would be the most common deployment
afaik.
--TimH
I understand. My recollection is that the distance is like 100 meters. VDSL is what the engineers deploying on the street told me. I think there is a node right outside.
Regards,
Roderick.
I discovered that the Budapest cable company was using VDLS to provide services up to 500 megs into the buildings where my flats are located. VDSL is a pretty old standard. I recollect people talking about it back in 1998.
Is it being heavily deployed in Last Mile networks state side?
DSL on the whole seems pretty unpopular in the USA. VDSL itself is a fairly old standard but it's been enhanced over the years to provide bandwidths up to 300mbit on a single twisted copper pair, albeit over relatively short distances.
DSL (these days, specifically VDSL2) is extremely popular and widely used within the UK because almost every home has a single twisted pair going into it for a POTS phone line. It made sense to run services over this than to re-cable 25 million homes. A (very) slow FTTH rollout is under way but what seems to be getting more traction is a rollout of G.Fast which currently boasts speeds of up to 500mbit over short distances (< 100m), still on a single twisted copper pair. This may be what you're getting as VDSL2 won't push to 500mbit over any sensible distance.
I can only speculate on why they decided to use DSL in your building - if it has legacy POTS infrastructure to each apartment, it would make some sense. If not, who knows...
Bell Canada still uses a lot of VDSL2 last-miles in Quebec and Ontario.
Max speed is 100/10 over bonded pairs and 50/10 over a single pair over short distances. Generally served from a fiber-fed DSLAM and less than 500 meters.
These are large 19th century buildings with courtyards. I have seen lots of activity on this street - fiber being pulled from manhole and gear being installed in cable manholes. Corning on the cables.
Regards,
Roderick.
The PTT is limited in 50 megs in this building. However, the cable company just upgraded its network and is now offering up to 500. I assume the cable company is using coax and may be that gives them an edge when combined with VDSL to get up to 500 megs.
That's what I would expect. A Gfast ONU in the building with fiber
backhaul. You can use legacy Cat3 pair or coax to get from the Telco
closet to each suite. That's basically what Gfast is for.
--TimH
In Germany 250/40 is possible over a single pair within 300 meters using VDSL2 Annex Q 35b, the telcos offers it as "super vectoring".
Both the cable and PTT have wiring in the buildings, but I suspect it is all CAT5 or the European equivalent in each apartment. Most of these flats have not been renovated in 30 to 50 years and that is usually when the flat is renovated that wiring would get upgraded. The cable company will often insist on rewiring the flat’s own wiring if it has never provided service before.
Its actually got pretty heavy use in a lot of CenturyLink areas, like here in Boise. Fiber is only now starting to become the norm, so everyone is on VDSL2 in single or bonded modes, speeds all the way up to around 50mbit down.
AT&T U-Verse in ex-SBC territories basically was their deployment of VDSL/VDSL2 back when it was new. Some installs used bonded ADSL2+ where they didn't have a node close enough to really get any advantage of VDSL.
These days, it's their catch-all name for anything that isn't classic ADSL served out of the CO, including their (very limited and apparently halted) FTTH deployment. VDSL is still very prevalent. I'm not in a territory served by it, but I know plenty of people nearby who are and, unless you happen to be on a FTTH path (which means you're either in select MDUs or happen to be on the path they took to get to one), you're getting VDSL2 if you call them up and order U-Verse Internet service.
They deliver up to 100Mbps with pair-bonded VDSL2 assuming you're close enough to the node.
Sounds like a fiber-to-the-curb deployment with G.FAST as the last "mile". They run fiber to the nearest pedestal then install a small G.FAST ONU/DPU at the pedestal fed by that fiber then delivering potentially 500-1000Mbps over the last few 100ft into the existing building on existing copper. Saves them from having to pull new drops which can get very expensive.
It's a bit of a stop-gap to a full FTTH deployment, but it'll get you very usable service for now and is relatively easily upgraded to full FTTH in the future by just pulling a real fiber drop and hooking it up to the existing fiber that's being used to feed the G.FAST ONU/DPU.
A lot of the G.FAST ONU/DPUs support VDSL2 fallback which they'll use if the copper turns out to be especially terrible, too long, or the customer doesn't want more than 50-100Mbps since the VDSL CPEs are somewhat significantly cheaper than G.FAST. Might be where "VDSL" came from.
Well, the cable company here is offering 500 megs to the entire 5 story building. My guess is that this G fast standard is what is being deployed here and they loosely call it ‘VDSL’.
Just like any broadband deployed by a Telco gets called "DSL" these
days - even if it's 1G fiber. And even by those in the industry who
should know better.
Annoying.
But I'm confused a bit by the below - G.Fast is a twisted pair
standard, last I saw - why would a cable (presumably coax) company be
offering it? Are they just taking over the PTT's inside wiring?
G.fast has definitions for both twisted pair and coax PHYs. That gets everybody interested.
The biggest issue for the CATV operators is that the coax PHY monopolizes the cable meaning you can't use it for conventional channelized RF type services, so if the subscriber wants cable TV in addition to IP service, you either have to have a side-by-side IPTV deployment or revert to running DOCSIS over channelized RF next to your linear TV system. I've seen micro fiber-fed DOCSIS nodes for this purpose. DOCSIS 3.1 with a good RF budget and lots of channel space can get a few gigs of bandwidth which is quite usable for a midsize MDU. Chuck one of those down in the telco room, and you're good to feed potentially a couple hundred units using traditional DOCSIS+linear TV which is what people expect from a CATV operator. Anyone who just wants IP service and ends up wanting tons of bandwidth can get moved over to packet-fed G.fast as needed.
We have the opposite problem in the UK - the VDSL (FTTC) roll-out was branded as "fibre broadband", much the annoyance of pretty much everyone I know in the industry.
The chickens have come home to roost now though, as they're struggling to find a cool branding for the subsequent FTTP roll-out, and not getting any better than "full fibre", a.k.a "we lied to you last time, but this time it really is..."
Regards,
Tim.
On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 09:45:35 +0100 (BST), "tim@pelican.org"
<tim@pelican.org> may have written:
The chickens have come home to roost now though, as they're struggling to
find a cool branding for the subsequent FTTP roll-out, and not getting
any better than "full fibre", a.k.a "we lied to you last time, but this
time it really is..."
"We mispelt it last time - it should have been 'fibber broadband'; this
time it's proper 'fibre broadband'"
As somebody who stopped using satellite/cable about a year ago, I can't see any reason why you'd want to get a cable package when you can get an over the top package for about $60 less. Yes, hulu and youtube's UI's suck, but that's a curable problem.
I do this on a 25Mb dsl link and it works just fine. Cable tv qua cable tv is doomed.
Mike