v6 bgp peer costs?

I currently have a v4 BGP session with AS 701 and recently requested a v6
BGP session to which I was told a tunnel session will be provided (Same
circuit would be better but whatever!). Towards the final stage in
discussions I was told that it will cost $1500. I find this quite ridiculous
and it will certainly not motivate people to move to v6 if providers put a
direct price tag on it. I am going through a bandwidth reseller though so I
am not sure who is trying to jack me here. Has anyone here gone through a
similar experience?

Thanks,
Zaid

I think the main question here would be, what they would charge for a change to a v4 session. Most likely they just decided that setting up the tunnel and configuring BGP takes time and since time is money they decided to charge for you. Seems like a reasonabe rule of business, why should it be free ? At the same time, the same set of economics will probably find you somebody who will do this for less and maybe even is happy to take your business and setup v4/v6 dual stack for free.

So get a quote from a competitor, call back 701 and offer them the choice of setting up the tunnel or loose a customer. My personal preference would be to leave and find somebody who can do native all the way.

MarcoH

I recently began the process of turning up BGP to AS 701 with both V4 and V6 peers and there were no additional costs.

Nathan Sipes
Sr. Network Design Specialist
Tel: 303-914-4996
FAX: 303-763-3510
Kinder Morgan
370 Van Gordon St
Lakewood, CO
80228
Nathan_Sipes@kindermorgan.com

Is dual-stacking with an edge device considered native? Or is "true" native when you have
an edge device or any network device for that matter that's v6 only?

Just curious....

Dual stack is considered native, i.e. "no tunnels".

~Seth

You can get a free IPv6 BGP tunnel from Hurricane Electric at http://tunnelbroker.net

We have tunnel servers spread through out the world, so typically the nearest server has reasonably low latency from your location.

Of course our main business is selling wholesale native IPv6 and IPv4 transit, however you don't have to be a paying customer to use our free service.

Mike.

Ooh, Verizon? Good luck. Do you know what pop (VZ calles them "hubs")
your existing circuit is out of? Not all of 701 is IPv6 enabled. If you
are currently served from a v4 only location you're out of luck.

I ordered an Ethernet circuit from Verizon last year as dual-stack
IPv4/IPv6. There was no extra cost involved. However, they never did
actually deliver the layer 3 portion, so I just let them languish into
obscurity. My problem was that I'm closer to a v4 only pop (Sacramento),
but the closest 4/6 pop is further away in San Jose. For some reason
they could not figure out how to go there and kept defaulting to Sac.
Eventually they called me and said it's just not possible to deliver the
service. I ended up placing an order with Global Crossing and the
dual-stack process was completely painless.

I also have an IPv6 BGP tunnel to Sprint which is included with my v4
service for free. It works fine, but it's still a tunnel and has much
higher latency than the DS3 it's running over. Hopefully native in August.

~Seth

Thanks, I am trying to see if there is a trend or anomalous gouging. From
off-list answers it doesn't seem like a trend among other vendors. My worry
about high costs is when you have several circuits this will add up and
going to a CFO to justify will be pretty hard. A CFO will generally say lets
deal with that problem next year when v4 actually runs out. Two years ago I
felt there wasn't enough motivation for folks to move to v6, I don't see
this changing especially when vendors, resellers etc charge more $$ for v6.

Zaid

I already have a v6 BGP tunnel with Hurricane Electric and works like a
charm :slight_smile: It is other vendors I am concerned about.

Zaid

I currently have a v4 BGP session with AS 701 and recently requested a v6
BGP session to which I was told a tunnel session will be provided (Same
circuit would be better but whatever!). Towards the final stage in
discussions I was told that it will cost $1500. I find this quite ridiculous
and it will certainly not motivate people to move to v6 if providers put a
direct price tag on it. I am going through a bandwidth reseller though so I
am not sure who is trying to jack me here. Has anyone here gone through a
similar experience?

Ooh, Verizon? Good luck. Do you know what pop (VZ calles them "hubs")
your existing circuit is out of? Not all of 701 is IPv6 enabled. If you
are currently served from a v4 only location you're out of luck.

POS-6 SJC

I ordered an Ethernet circuit from Verizon last year as dual-stack
IPv4/IPv6. There was no extra cost involved. However, they never did
actually deliver the layer 3 portion, so I just let them languish into
obscurity. My problem was that I'm closer to a v4 only pop (Sacramento),
but the closest 4/6 pop is further away in San Jose. For some reason
they could not figure out how to go there and kept defaulting to Sac.
Eventually they called me and said it's just not possible to deliver the
service. I ended up placing an order with Global Crossing and the
dual-stack process was completely painless.

Sigh.. Explains why I never got a straight answer on native v6 support.
First they said yes then now Tunnel only. Perhaps time to turn them off.

Zaid

You're certainly not in the minority.

The practice of charging for v6 service (I've seen it represented as a
MRC, NRC, and/or per-mb premium) seems partly rooted in a desire to
gouge unsuspecting customers, and partly an honest misunderstanding of
an organization's change processes and systems (is v6 considered a
change request? New order?)...

Whatever the situation, the correct response is to demand native
connectivity at no charge, or else walk away at the expiration of your
contract. Tunnels are messy now, and stand to become a lot messier as
content adaptation and overall traffic volumes increase.

-a

mleber@he.net (Mike Leber) wrote:

You can get a free IPv6 BGP tunnel from Hurricane Electric at
http://tunnelbroker.net

We have tunnel servers spread through out the world, so typically the
nearest server has reasonably low latency from your location.

Of course our main business is selling wholesale native IPv6 and IPv4
transit, however you don't have to be a paying customer to use our free
service.

I currently have a v4 BGP session with AS 701 and recently requested a v6
BGP session to which I was told a tunnel session will be provided (Same
circuit would be better but whatever!). Towards the final stage in
discussions I was told that it will cost $1500. I find this quite

Mike, Mike,

I still wonder how you are able to sell the stuff that you are *also*
giving away for free (minus the physical port) and that admittedly works
like a charm...

Elmar.

PS: Keep up the good tunne^Wwork!
PPS: Any plans on having something inside mainland China?

We do not charge v4 customers anything to turn up an IPv6 tunnel. If
you hear otherwise, please feel free to drop me a line. Native v6 is
available in atleast 31 markets, on over 210 edge devices in 701. There
is a good chance that native v6 is available for most, or close enough
to rehome to a v6 capable device. If native isn't available you should
be offered a tunnel for free.

I'm happy to try to help anyone with VZ (701/702/703/14551) with their
IPv6 issues.

--Heather

Although re-homing can take up to a year, and in my case, they gave up
trying and just canceled the service.

~Seth

I must say going with a provider that has a truly native network plan vs 6PE model (as presented at NANOG) might avoid these problems.

There are likely to be a lot of people in the next 12-18 months that start running around trying to upgrade and bolt IPv6 to their networks, utilizing methods like 6PE, etc.. and this problem is likely to get worse before it gets better.

I'm honestly interested in what the US based DSL (incumbent) providers are doing for IPv6 (eg: att/bls/sbc/uverse, qwest, vz dsl). Most of the "ethernet" (including PON) equipment is more likely to do IPv6 correctly, but I'm not sure that the PPPo* DSL equipment is going to be quite as happy with it.

This should be interesting. I also look forward to seeing what devices start to keel over by software vs hardware switched IPv6 paths as traffic increases.

- Jared

[..]

I'm honestly interested in what the US based DSL (incumbent) providers
are doing for IPv6 (eg: att/bls/sbc/uverse, qwest, vz dsl).
Most of the "ethernet" (including PON) equipment is more likely
to do IPv6 correctly, but I'm not sure that the PPPo* DSL equipment
is going to be quite as happy with it.

I actually have only one answer that makes sense for this: 6rd

Or to state it in a more complete way:
- native IPv4 + IPv6 where possible
- native IPv4 + 6rd everywhere else

Any other method has deployment-wise too much overhead or not enough
control and 6rd is rapidly getting implemented in a lot of hardware.
Actually today I noticed that even iproute (aka 'ip' on Linux) has 6rd
support built-in, dunno when that happened, but that is nice to see.

Yes, you lose a few bits, yes you have to come up with a way of mapping
the IPv4 space in your IPv6 address plan, but that is not soo difficult
and actually will make network admins happy as the bits are easy to
identify.

Of course, if one has CPE at the enduser which can do PPPv6 then PPPv6
definitely is also a proper "native" alike deployment scenario.

This should be interesting. I also look forward to seeing what
devices start to keel over by software vs hardware switched IPv6
paths as traffic increases.

That one will be very interesting indeed. In the case of 6rd though one
can just add more hardware to the pile and anycast it to make it scale
as far as one wants. And yes, I indeed say to just add Linux/BSD boxes
for handling this, 1U boxes are cheap, OS is easy to install as you do
with all those webservers/storage/mail etc you already have anyway, thus
it is just another box to add to the auto-deploy setup.

One has to remember though that 6rd is a TRANSITION mechanism that
should fade away on the long run. For the next year or two though most
likely one can get away with tunneled connectivity, after that, when
major sites will be enabling IPv6 and thus content and traffic shifts
from IPv4 to IPv6 the folks who are already trying to get native to
their customers today and have hardware IPv6 enabled in their cores will
definitely have a monetary advantage.

One important thing folks should not forget though is to make sure that
they can handle abuse and statistics properly. Take that into account
from the start and you'll save yourself a lot of hassle.

As for non-managed/non-owned paths, ISPs can then always still opt for a
tunnel-broker like solution, be that PPTP based, TIC(AYIYA/hb) or TSP based.

Like always, what shoe best fits your foot. But do think about what you
want to be running on till the next upgrade cycle of your hardware comes
around :wink:

Greets,
Jeroen