Utah governor signs Net-porn bill

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1

--- William Allen Simpson <wsimpson@greendragon.com>
wrote:

So, Utah law _already_ means no links to Planned
Parenthood et alia.

Planned Parenthood is quite alive and well in Utah.
Contraceptives are freely advertised on TV and given
out on campus at the U of U. All of the other stuff
you're seeing is either:

1) unenforcable old blue laws similar to how Native
Americans need to be escorted by police in
Massachussetts (i.e. they never got around to fixing
old bad law, but noone cares anymore)

2) political posturing by elected officials (also
relatively common in other parts of the world. c.f.
US Congress, both parties)

3) Something which, while it COULD be extended to mean
something ridiculous, will NOT be.

For crying out loud - this is UTAH, not the moon: the
people there are just like people everywhere. Yeah,
they tend to be a bit more socially conservative than
the libertarian-leaning NANOG membership is used to,
but it's not like they've got 2 heads and three arms -
if you prick them, they'll bleed...

so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was
poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of
service, and we'll see how it plays out.

-David Barak
need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
http://www.listentothefranchise.com

2

so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was
poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of
service, and we'll see how it plays out.

Right!
Not everyone needs or wants plain old raw Internet
access. That is a commodity service which appealed
to the early adopters who were technically literate.
But in order to make the Internet into a true
universal utility which is connected everywhere,
all of the time, we need to develop some value-added
services in addition to the plain-jane commodity
access.

So far most product innovation has come about by
applying different types of technology to the
last mile access and to the network core. Or by
subtracting from the standard bundle of services
offered by ISPs in 1995.

Now it is time for people to look at adding to the
plain-jane access service. One way to do this is
by supplying managed (or partially managed) boxes
to subscribers in their premises. SIP-based telephony
services are an example of this. Most SIP-phones are
partially managed boxes that call home when they are
reset to download some config info. Most ISPs offer
managed access or VPN services where the CPE router
and/or firewall is managed by the ISP.

Shifting the managed service into the ISP premises rather
than the customer premises is not a big deal from the
technology point of view and enables an ISP to provide
more solid guarantees of security to the customer. This
is especially appealing to home users since the home
environment is generally less secure than a corporate
environment where IT rooms and telecom closets are
locked and access-controlled.

The Internet services business has gotten rather
too conservative lately. Where is the innovation gone?
Why are so many people in the business satisfied to
rest on their laurels and point to their accomplishments
back in the 90's? I would have thought, that tough
economic times would spur people to greater innovation
not less.

--Michael Dillon

3

David Barak wrote:

Planned Parenthood is quite alive and well in Utah. Contraceptives are freely advertised on TV and given
out on campus at the U of U. All of the other stuff
you're seeing is either:

1) unenforcable old blue laws similar to ...

Don't know about Utah, but do know about Michigan:

1998 Aug 15 -- 24-year-old computer programmer hit a rock with his
canoe. Began cussing. Charged with a 19th century law banning
profanity within earshot of women and children. Convicted by jury.

Took 4 years to overturn on appeal. Tens of thousands of dollars. Is
only 1 of many such cases across the country that the ACLU has fought.

So, I wouldn't bank on "unenforceable"....

2) political posturing by elected officials (also
relatively common in other parts of the world. c.f.
US Congress, both parties)

I've previously written here about RECENT Michigan laws on sex between
unmarried persons, called "lascivious" conduct here (as opposed to
"fornication" in Utah).

And just like RECENT Utah, Michigan has RECENTLY enacted clearly
unconstitutional laws on abortion, in the hopes that some future
Supreme Court will reverse Roe v Wade, at which time all those invalid
laws will become operative.

3) Something which, while it COULD be extended to mean
something ridiculous, will NOT be.

Great! If you truly believe this, just volunteer to be the test case.

All you have to do is host a computer site, and refuse to label the
content. Heck, AFAICT, a FTP-only site would be a good case.

Or simply refuse to offer the blocking service.

I'm assuming that you really operate an ISP in Utah. And that you are
willing to spend some time in jail at various times, have $10,000 or so
for bail, and a few $100,000 for attorney fees -- none of which you'll
get back even should you win.

I've spent time in jail on principle. I'm glad to see others are still
willing to stand up and be counted!

For the rest of you, wouldn't it just be cheaper and more cost effective
to send some money to CDT?

4

David Barak wrote:
<snip>

For crying out loud - this is UTAH, not the moon: the
people there are just like people everywhere. Yeah,
they tend to be a bit more socially conservative than
the libertarian-leaning NANOG membership is used to,
but it's not like they've got 2 heads and three arms -
if you prick them, they'll bleed...

    From their hands, and feet, like in Stigmata ?

   Remind me not to visit Utah, on Easter. :}

  FWIW, they are doing articles right now, on how the
evangelicals, thanks to "Faith Based Initiative"
are using the money funneled into them, and their
new close associations, to influence policy in US Government.

  So much for the "Wall of Separation". :\

   Prepare for a lot more of it to come down the
road. The Schiavo case is a great example. From
a legal standpoint, they have -nothing- to stand on...

  20 judges have said so.

   The parents gave up, and signed the "right of attorney"
over to the husband, years ago. End of _legal_ story.

   But, this administration, and a mob of RRR,
don't really care about the law, as much as appearances,
and grandstanding.

  So, the _exact_same_man_ who signed into law the Governments right
to pop the plug on the poor, _irrespective_ of the wishes of the
caregiver, -or- family, is leading the mob with pitchforks
against just such an action.

   Go Figure.

   Like I said, "The Moral Majority were Neither".

so while I agree that this is a goofy law which was
poorly written - there IS a demand for this type of
service, and we'll see how it plays out.

    If there is a demand for the service, someone
will be _more_ than happy to sell it to them,
however, you -don't- need a law, just the demand.

   Just think, anyone who tries to offer this
service, if he were to have an error, or a mistake,
will face criminal charges, as well as the potential
Civil Lawsuit, similar to Vonage.

   Double Jeopardy for trying to do "the right thing".

  And something else to remember about those "Blue Laws",
they are usually old and antiquated.. not, passed in the
last 6 months.

  Who would have thought the "Dark Ages" would
have a revival, post 2000 ?

5

What color?

Cheers,
-- jra