US hunters shoot down Google fibre

Mailman List Mirror (Read Only)
1

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/232831,us-hunters-shoot-down-google-fibre.aspx

Repairers forced to ski in to Oregon back woods.

Google has revealed that aerial fibre links to its data centre in Oregon were
"regularly" shot down by hunters, forcing the company to put its cables
underground.

The search and advertising giant's network engineering manager Vijay Gill
told the AusNOG conference in Sydney last week that people were trying to hit
insulators on electricity distribution poles.

The poles also hosted aerially-deployed fibre connected to Google's $US600
million ($A635 million) data centre in the Dalles, a small city on the
Columbia River in the US state of Oregon.

"What people do for sport or because they're bored, they try to shoot at the
insulators," Gill said.

"I have yet to see them actually hit the insulator, but they regularly shoot
down the fibre.

"Every November when hunting season starts invariably we know that the fibre
will be shot down, so much so that we are now building an underground path
[for it]."

Gill said that on one occasion, a snowstorm and avalanche prevented Google
from transporting repairers and gear into the area of the cut.

It usually used a helicopter or a Caterpillar D9 tractor for transport. It
improvised by sending three technicians on skis to "repair the fibre that got
shot down".

"These guys had to cross country ski for three days," Gill said.

"[One guy] is carrying what is known as a fusion splicing kit on his
backpack."

He joked: "These guys had to go in and fix the fibre while facing gunshots

"So [the] internet... [it's] more dangerous than you realise."

2

this was presented at the nanog in ... SF I think as well:
<http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/abstracts.php?pt=MTU5NSZuYW5vZzQ5&nm=nanog49>

not really news...

3

Hunters, backhoes, and ship anchors are all fiber's natural enemies - I'm surprised Discovery Channel hasn't done a special on it!

4

I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call
bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that
this be my first, last, and only post on this topic.

Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur
shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances?
By short, I mean ~50 yards or less.

Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at
an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has
a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being
aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed
in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of
the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control
crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown-
influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment
a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady
Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of
deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse.

What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running
wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the
identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of
additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more
probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters
are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with
only the information currently available.

Reese

5

"Fiber Week"?

6

I don't want to start an off-topic subthread but I have to call
bullshit on this so-called "news" story. So it is my intent that
this be my first, last, and only post on this topic.

Was it addressed at NANOG (in SF?) that many rifles and amateur
shooters both, are capable of sub-MOA accuracy at short distances?
By short, I mean ~50 yards or less.

Or that a hunter with even modest self-training, who was aiming at
an insulator with a properly sighted-in rifle at short range, has
a significantly greater probability of hitting the insulator being
aimed at than of hitting the supported wire? That wasn't addressed
in the buttwipe propaganda from down under. Need I remind anyone of
the Dunblane and Port Arthur incidents and the subsequent gun control
crackdowns in each of those countries. I wouldn't expect any crown-
influenced news agency to give issues involving our Second Amendment
a fair shake. Just like I don't expect logic or sanity from the Brady
Campaign on the 2A issue. Nor should anyone else. The story smacks of
deliberately painting hunters as irresponsible ruffians and worse.

What sort of repair rates do the power or other companies running
wire across that expanse contend with? Given the remoteness, the
identity of the affected client (Google) and the apparent absence of
additional information, corporate sabotage seems just-as or even-more
probable than random irresponsible hunters. To be fair, some shooters
are irresponsible, but deliberate sabotage cannot be ruled out with
only the information currently available.

In my experience, there's really two types of shootings (which really depend on the region) -- Number one is using shotguns, not rifles, and bird hunting - for example when goose hunting season happens, you'll see fiber shot out over lakes/rivers more often - I think this is both bad aim and not really caring. (Occasionally the shot will even be stuck in the lines or insulation so you can tell it was a shotgun) The second is drunk idiots shooting at the lines - this is more universal and happens closer to civilization. Power companies will also have repair issues with either of these, but fiber, phone, and cable lines are more likely as they are lower to the ground due to regulations that state they have to be at least X feet away from the power lines.

I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are irresponsible, but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who take stupid actions.

As for the 2nd amendment stuff - I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot fiber :wink:

Leslie

7

Several years ago I heard of a Swiss ISP having the same problem. They
built their network by running fibre along the earth conductor of high
voltage transmission lines (like Energis in the UK). I was told that it
was common for hunters to verify the setting of their sights by shooting
at the lines.

Tony.

8

I shoot competition rifle, and rifles just aren't that accurate. You certainly CAN shoot out a fiber or utility line on the pole, from point blank, but it's not actually useful in diagnosing or correcting problems with the rifle. A good rifle will shoot 1" groups (`MOA) at 100 yards, and most lines on the pole are smaller, fiber being much smaller. There are rifles that exceed 1MOA, but most hunters quite frankly can't afford them, nor are they necessary for hunting.

Andrew

9

Modern telephone pole aerial fiber uses all dialectric self-supporting
(ADSS) technology, where the self-supporting component consists
primarily of aramid yarn, the same material used for bullet-proof vests.
This makes for an extremely light weight, almost indestructible fiber
bundle. My guess is that ADSS fiber would deflect any bullets, or it
would take a very good marksman using a very high caliber weapon to
actually sever an aerial fiber.

Now in the case described below where optical ground wire (OPGW) fiber
is used as a component in the ground wire running at the top of high
voltage transmission towers, it may be possible to hit the insulators at
the top of the towers, but the ground wire itself is usually armored,
with ADSS inside. Seems far-fetched to me.

10

Back in my ISP days it was more common for people to take pot shots at
remote equipment cabinets than the cable/fiber itself. Any field
enclosure is as easy a target as your average bullet-ridden road sign.
Although this was extremely rare; I can only recall one instance where
it was the direct cause of an outage.

~Seth

11

How are the guys sent out on cross-country skis going to get up to the fiber
to repair it? I'm sure that the cable isn't low enough for them to reach it
without a ladder, bucket truck, helicopter.... all of which you don't pack
in on skis...

-Kevin

12

Hi Kevin,

That is easy. "Tree Climbing Spurs / Tree Climbing Spikes" A quick
Google search found these for sale. http://wesspur.com/spurs/spurs.html

:slight_smile:

Sincerely,

Mark

Kevin Neal wrote:

13

I guess it depends on whether these are wooden poles or the metal towers
that I find around here for long haul power.

-Kevin

14

Of course it's easily reachable - it's been shot down and is on the ground. If
it was still on the pole you wouldn't be out there on skis with a splice kit. :slight_smile:

What I have to wonder about is how often hunter-inflicted damage is intentional
and located at the insulator (which makes for a good story) and how often it's
a totally accidental stray bullet nicking the cable many yards from the nearest
pole (which makes for a poor story). I'd expect that since the fiber is
usually hung much closer to the ground, it would get hit a lot more than the
power cables higher up. Also, you're less likely to notice a 1mm divot taken
out of a (usually thicker and sturdier and essentially single fat conductor)
power cable than a 1mm divot out of a 48 pair.

(Consider that even today, it is *still* relatively common to visit some CIvil
War battlegrounds and find 2 bullets that hit each other in mid-air. Of
course, most of those were probably going down a narrow cone pointed at the
source of the other bullet, but still, it indicates that with enough hunters
and enough bullets, somebody's going to nick that 300 miles of cable hanging
just a few yards above the deer....

15

Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer, so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that has been victim of a shotgun blast.

~Dave

16

What I want to know is, even if the story is bogus, why is anyone
surprised by the prospect?

It's been my experience that when Bubba goes out into the woods that
anything manmade becomes a target. Microwave reflectors, telephone
poles, road signs, water towers, windmills.... you name it and some
low-brow will shoot at it. That and leave shell casings and shotgun
hulls all over the place when he's done. Gives all us responsible
folks a bad name... Now I just have one more good reason to loathe
that behavior.

(and we're now drifting well off topic so this thread should probably
die pretty quickly.)

-Wayne

17

I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are irresponsible,

Re-read the article. "[h]unters" it said, not "some hunters" or
"irresponsible hunters". How broad must the brush be, before you
feel personally impugned and maligned?

but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who take stupid actions.

I acknowledged that. I regret its truthiness. But with Google and
only Google as a named victim of the hardware DoS, I have yet to
read anything that convinces me that it was not corporate sabotage.

My point was not that wires and insulators do not get shot or shot
at, but that "hunters" was a convenient excuse that other things
could be too-conveniently classified with.

Who, here, hunts? Shoot at wires and insulators on towers, do you?

Reese

18

1. Deer tend to hang out in little clearings while eating. Little
clearings like the right of way clearing 25 or 50 feet on each side of
an electricity pylon.

2. Deer are easier to shoot when their silhouette is seen at or near
the top of a ridge, especially if they are in a clearing as well.

Combine #1 and #2, it is logical that even without "bubbas" the
deer/fiber coincidence level would be high.

--Patrick

19

From: Reese [mailto:reese@inkworkswell.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:36 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: US hunters shoot down Google fibre

>I don't think anyone is claiming all hunters/gun owners are

irresponsible,

Re-read the article. "[h]unters" it said, not "some hunters" or
"irresponsible hunters". How broad must the brush be, before you
feel personally impugned and maligned?

>but, as with any segment of the population, when you have a large
>group there will be a percentage of complete idiots out there who
>take stupid actions.

I acknowledged that. I regret its truthiness. But with Google and
only Google as a named victim of the hardware DoS, I have yet to
read anything that convinces me that it was not corporate sabotage.

My point was not that wires and insulators do not get shot or shot
at, but that "hunters" was a convenient excuse that other things
could be too-conveniently classified with.

Who, here, hunts? Shoot at wires and insulators on towers, do you?

Reese

I live in Washington State and have managed a fiber network along paths
similar to the ones being taken by Google. Every winter we had at least
4 shotgun-blast outages, sometimes in the middle of nowhere and
sometimes with a direct line of site to the back porch of a local
"manufactured home". You would be amazed at what people find fun with
during a long, cold winter and a belly full of libations. And I can
almost guarantee you it wasn't sabotage. In many cases, the revelers
were shooting at power lines and happened to hit the fibers wrapped
around the ground wire. These are 500 kV lines by the way. Long story
short, you can't account for stupid.

Mike

20

David DiGiacomo wrote:

Instead of a rifle, how about a shotgun? It fires a nice wide spread shot pattern. I think you would be much more likely to do
some damage (ie: knock fiber off a pole) with something like that. Here in New Jersey it is illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer,
so typically you will find hunters using a bow/arrow or Shotgun and you will see a lot of road signs (or other abandon junk) that
has been victim of a shotgun blast.

~Dave

Birds like to sit on wires and assholes like to shoot them.
50 years ago I carried around the .22 slug I dug out of the lead-sheathed cable while troubleshooting the outer marker for McClellan AFB in the middle of a rainy night.

--Michael