If this question is inappropriate for this list I apoligize in advance.
I have several open engineering positions that I am trying to fill without
the use of a recruiter. My thoughts on using a recruiter is they end up
extracting a fee from the employer that would be better put to the future
employee.
My question, what is the most effective way to recruit quality engineers?
Does anyone have experience or opinions to share?
TIA,
Shawn
so negotiate with the recruiter.
benifits of a recuriter are:
* they take the twit calls
* they read thru the resumes and sort the junk out
* they do the screening
* they do the reference and background checks
* they have more resources to find people than you do
this saves you time and money on your end. time better
spent building customer base, solving customer problems, etc.
and if you do a good contract with the recruiter, if the
person you hire is sacked, they find you a new one at no cost 
i'd also suggest using an independent recruiter, and check
references.
the big firms that do recruiting often take a cut that is all out of
proportion to the amount of work they actually do. an independent
will often be more reasonable.
richard
The only problem - they have no clue about the profession they're
recruiting for and tend to judge applicants not by them saying reasonable
things but by their self-assuredness and by keywords in resume.
Recruiters are only good for initial screening and attracting applicants,
and in this economic climate theis services are nearly worthless, too. As
for presuming they actually read resumes... well, they may, but they never
seem to be able to distinguish between reality and exaggregation or
outright lies. In the end, they screen out all geeks and you end up with
a bunch of polished liars.
Better use networking and referrals, and Internet-based resources.
--vadim
Vadim Antonov writes on 11/8/2003 7:49 PM:
Better use networking and referrals, and Internet-based resources.
Posting to nanog will already have got him a lot of quality resumes, I think 
Recruiters can provide you a group of _average_ engineers, and do not
protect you from a heap of junk.
If you need a 100 new persons for your call center - it's a good way. If you
are looking for _Windows administrator, 100 desktops all Win2K or WinXP,
anti-virus, 2 domains - it is good method too. If you are designing new
software, using new protocol and have 10 patents - use other methods.
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Alex
Recruiters can provide you a group of _average_ engineers, and do not
protect you from a heap of junk.
If you need a 100 new persons for your call center - it's a good way. If you
are looking for _Windows administrator, 100 desktops all Win2K or WinXP,
anti-virus, 2 domains - it is good method too. If you are designing new
software, using new protocol and have 10 patents - use other methods.
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Alex
Recruiters can provide you a group of _average_ engineers, and do not
protect you from a heap of junk.
If you need a 100 new persons for your call center - it's a good way. If you
are looking for _Windows administrator, 100 desktops all Win2K or WinXP,
anti-virus, 2 domains - it is good method too. If you are designing new
software, using new protocol and have 10 patents - use other methods.
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Alex
Recruiters can provide you a group of _average_ engineers, and do not
protect you from a heap of junk.
If you need a 100 new persons for your call center - it's a good way. If you
are looking for _Windows administrator, 100 desktops all Win2K or WinXP,
anti-virus, 2 domains - it is good method too. If you are designing new
software, using new protocol and have 10 patents - use other methods.
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Alex
Recruiters can provide you a group of _average_ engineers, and do not
protect you from a heap of junk.
If you need a 100 new persons for your call center - it's a good way. If you
are looking for _Windows administrator, 100 desktops all Win2K or WinXP,
anti-virus, 2 domains - it is good method too. If you are designing new
software, using new protocol and have 10 patents - use other methods.
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Alex
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
Vadim is right, such lists (as nanog) can be much more effective in finding
_highly skilled_ engineers.
Where is the "nanog job board" to post open positions to?
Pete
Where is the "nanog job board" to post open positions to?
To my knowledge it is still a yahoo-group called nanog-jobs.
It's pretty low traffic - the last note I saw was on 10/9 and
probably 20 posts in the past year.
There was an administrative post in February that stated the
list was moving elsewhere, but it doesn't appear to have ever
done so.
-John
Vadim Antonov wrote:
The only problem - they have no clue about the profession they're
recruiting for and tend to judge applicants not by them saying reasonable
things but by their self-assuredness and by keywords in resume.
And Statistics show, the less knowledgeable you are in this
field, the more cock sure of yourself you are, and the opposite
hsa been proven true, as well.
(Time and time again in help desks around the world,
every single day.. 
Recruiters ...
> (snip)
In the end, they screen out all geeks and you end up with
a bunch of polished liars.
Vadim, you are getting as jaded as Bill.
:P
(Albeit accurate!)
> Where is the "nanog job board" to post open positions to?
To my knowledge it is still a yahoo-group called nanog-jobs.
It's pretty low traffic - the last note I saw was on 10/9 and
probably 20 posts in the past year.There was an administrative post in February that stated the
list was moving elsewhere, but it doesn't appear to have ever
done so.
The list still exists. New subscriptions are approved regularly.
We get about five new subscriptions a week. I'd considered
moving the list off of yahoogroups after their changing-mail-pref
scam, but I later held off. The list will still be moving,
sometime in the next 30 days or so, but subscriptions will be
preserved.
I invite those interested or those recently subscribed to send
a short introduction to the list regarding who you are, what you're
looking for, and what skillsets. A resume is not desired or
required.
nanog-jobs has only had, IIRC, about five job postings, but it is
an excellent way to get in touch with a good cross-section of
candidates who tend to have more network engineering and architecture
knowledge than the average joe.
nanog-jobs is *not* affiliated with NANOG proper or Merit, although
there have been some very informal BOFs in the past at NANOG events.
Miami will be the next.
My purpose in creating the list was the hope that a more informal
recruitment structure would prevail, since prescreening was less
necessary in the light of the fact that I tend to aggressively
moderate subscriptions to the list and I tried very hard to target
(in my initial actions in creating the list) people with routing
protocol and switching experience primarily, while trying not to
target those with MCSE/CCNA certifications alone.
Best regards,
Tim