The questions stand

> Lets see how they are performing today, shall we?
> [somebox]:~# traceroute


> Wow. Now, that's some lightning speed. <sic>
> And NOW, lets look at someone with a real Tier One provider:
> [somebox]:~# traceroute
> traceroute: Warning: Multiple interfaces found; using x.x.x.x @ eth0
> traceroute to (, 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
> 1 (Default Gateway) (x.x.x.1) 0.495 ms 0.415 ms 0.385 ms
> 2 (Tier One provider) (x.x.x.21) 2.424 ms 1.630 ms 1.529 ms
> 3 ( 15.131 ms 13.261 ms 13.930 ms
> 4 ( 14.775 ms 15.296 ms 16.193 ms
> 5 ( 14.592 ms 14.750 ms 14.504 ms
> BTW: Karl, lightning fast as always to your site.

Then again, my background and engineering efforts have been geared towards
the Fortune-50 marketplace and OLTP environments where ANY packet loss or
significant hysteresis in the transport times is considered unacceptable.

Seems to depend on where you sit. John is only a few hops away (on the
same 'Tier 1' provider?) as Karl, so traffic is dependant on only three
parties maintaining a clean network. Across another backbone (via public
view it's not so clean, probably due to packet loss
across the Tier 1 provider that they use (UUNet) or loss at an exchange
point between UUNet and Napnet to get to Karl's network.

---- PING Statistics----
15 packets transmitted, 13 packets received, 13% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 40/52/190

Meanwhile, it's clean from where I sit:
---- PING Statistics----
21 packets transmitted, 21 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 85/96/299

and Aspire is clean from here: PING Statistics----
16 packets transmitted, 16 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 23/30/54

but I see loss from NetAxs to me:
---- PING Statistics----
24 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 8% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 29/48/70

while it's clean from NetAxs to MCS: PING Statistics----
17 packets transmitted, 17 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 22/26/37

Despite our best intentions, packet loss and delay will always exists from
our networks to certain destinations, no matter whether we use 'Tier 1'
providers or companies that are creating private NAPs of their own. And
how it looks from me to you doesn't mean much, in the long run - how it
looks across the board from you to your customer's destinations is what
makes a difference. If that's accomplished with a small backbone
provider, a big player like MCI, or some local 'private nap' company
shouldn't make any difference to anyone but yourself.