The Great Exchange

Michael Shields writes:

I think pricing based on the actual destination makeup of your
traffic is more fair than pricing based on the assumption that your
traffic is like everyone else's.

So, this is an issue of perceived morality and not a technical issue?

I think its only fair that everyone pay for the matchbooks they
use. The fact that matchbooks are generally given away these days,
instead of having people charged for them on a usage basis, is grossly
unfair.

I think it is only fair that everyone pay for the television they
watch on a metered basis. If you watch for ten hours, you should be
paying twice as much as for five hours, right? Its only FAIR!!!!!

I think it is only fair that you should pay twice as much for a Fedex
package going twice the distance, and I'm MAD THAT THEY DON'T CHARGE
THAT WAY, DAMNIT!

Now that we've all figured out how silly this sounds... Mr. Shields,
"Fair" has nothing to do with it. The business case in all telecom
markets is going towards distance insensitive pricing, and even flat
rate pricing. The cost of providing service is very low, and not
particularly traffic or distance sensitive in reality. For your
average dialup ISP, the cost of payroll way outswamps the cost of your
connectivity -- cost of equipment and payroll together makes
connectivity look small. I would not be particularly surprised to find
the equation is similar on larger providers, although I have
insufficient experience there to know for sure. Certainly, however, as
time goes on, the cost of the data on the wire is not per se the
source of expense.

The cost of providing detailed billing -- especially detailed by
destination -- is very high. Not only do you need to waste cycles
counting where every packet is going to and from, but you also need to
transmit that data, store it for years lest you have billing disputes,
produce software to create detailed bills, operate a much more
advanced billing and collections department which has to handle things
like inevitable disputes, etc. All this so that you can divvy up what
is, in fact, not even your biggest cost in most cases? All this while
your competitors are offering a service people prefer, namely flat
rate pricing?

Where is the business case for this, Mr. Shields? Why on earth would
anyone be stupid enough to want any of that crap?

We've had "burstable" T1 and T3 service metering for years, and in
this very restricted domain (charging a fairly small number of bulk
users for their consumption) there has been something of an economic
case for that billing model, especially given that many such users are
resellers. What you are proposing is far beyond even this case, however.

I could be wrong, and I'd be happy to be shown why. But I think
distance-pricing has a sound basis, even if it never materializes in
the market.

"Sound" is a measure of what the market wants. If the market never
accepts something, the notion that it was "sound" is somewhat specious.

Perry

Michael Shields writes:
> I think pricing based on the actual destination makeup of your
> traffic is more fair than pricing based on the assumption that your
> traffic is like everyone else's.

So, this is an issue of perceived morality and not a technical issue?

I think its only fair that everyone pay for the matchbooks they
use. The fact that matchbooks are generally given away these days,
instead of having people charged for them on a usage basis, is grossly
unfair.

I think it is only fair that everyone pay for the television they
watch on a metered basis. If you watch for ten hours, you should be
paying twice as much as for five hours, right? Its only FAIR!!!!!

I think it is only fair that you should pay twice as much for a Fedex
package going twice the distance, and I'm MAD THAT THEY DON'T CHARGE
THAT WAY, DAMNIT!

Now that we've all figured out how silly this sounds... Mr. Shields,
"Fair" has nothing to do with it.

What the hell kind of straw man is this?

Yes, it sounds absolutely foolish, but you are attacking an argument I
did not make. Perry, I am *not* a flake. I don't think that
distance-insensitive pricing is immoral; or that it is going away; or
that backbones should adopt it; or even that I know or care what sort
of pricing models people have. All I said was that distance-sensitive
pricing is feasible.

What place it has in the market, if any, I don't know, and it is
absolutely 100% pointless to argue about it. You think it has no
place in the market, and I think it could be worthwhile for some
niches. Neither of our opinions matter; the market will figure it
out. I don't care to argue about it. It doesn't matter. The market
will figure it out.

By "fair" I don't mean "moral", I mean "pricing more accurately
reflecting costs". I am sorry if you see this as a loaded term.

In fact, "fair" is exactly the word used by connect.com.au, the first
Australian ISP whose web page I looked at, to decribe their three-
tiered pricing model -- intra-network, web cached, and external.
This sounds to me like a coarse attempt at distance-sensitive pricing
for an area of the world where bandwidth *is* a major cost.

So, is it technically viable or not? I posted a method that I think
will work, using existing netflow data, i.e. no significant extra
router load. Is something wrong with it?