Has anyone here heard of or do they themselves charge extra for
providing a complete internet table to customers?
Waive the surcharge for sufficiently large commits?
I've never heard of nor experienced that before.
~Seth
... I've never heard of it, but iow, I'd pay more if I could get my
upstreams to provide the full table...
Is there a market? I doubt it.
Steve
Every "upstream" I've dealt with in the US & western Europe provides a full table if you ask. Kinda the point of being an "upstream".
There are some countries where "Bee-Gee-Pee" is not understood, and they therefore do not speak it.
If you buy transit from someone and they charge for setting up BGP and sending you a full table in the US, Canada, and most of Europe, I'd find another provider. That one probably isn't clueful enough to provide good service.
In other parts of the planet, well, they probably still aren't clueful enough. 
But when the game is fixed, if it's the only game in town, you sometimes have to play anyway.
clarification...
...I'd pay a bit more if they would do BGP with me in the first place,
let alone the size of the table I received...
I think I was originally looking at the OP's question incorrectly...
-sb
Do you mean "Full routes" for BGP ?
Sometimes there are extra charge for BGP, but never heard about full
routes or not.
How can they guarantee whether they provide Full routes or not ?
If some routes are missing, are they going to provide the credit for it ?
Full routes from BGP is always best-effort basis.
So I don't think they can charge it based on whether it is full routes
or not.
They may charge for running BGP with you, but not for full routes or not.
Alex
ML wrote:
We provide full tables to customers that ask, 99% of the time they don't know what they are asking for and don't really need it. full tables doesn't cost anything more but we only do it for our 100+meg customers. I don't for example do BGP with T1 level customers.
-Matt
I've seen the opposite-namely getting a substantial discount for moving from a default route feed to a dfz bgp feed. The rationale was that the default route ip connection was provisioned using hsrp on the provider side and came with a much stricter sla.
Nick
In Asia, there is a popular, but incorrectly named product offering
that many ISPs sell called "domestic transit" which they sell
for price $X; for "full routes" you often pay $2X-$3X. I grind my
teeth every time I hear it, since "transit" doesn't mean "to select
parts of the internet" in most people's eyes. It's really a paid
peering offering, but no matter how much I try to correct people,
the habit of calling it "domestic transit" still persists. 
Matt\
I don't think there is a universally agreed upon definition of what
transit means other than it involves someone paying someone else.
Just to clarify, there are both domestic transit and country specific
paid peering products out there in Asia/Pacific region.
I have no idea what the sales people call each in different
countries, but domestic transit is not a misnomer as the ISP
selling you this will be providing reacheability to their
country specific customer base AND reacheability to their
country specific peers.
-dorian
Hurricane Electric routinely offers free transit on IPv6, and, we give
free transit to many organizations on IPv4 as well.
To us, transit means giving them routes that are not originated by
our ASN or ASNs which are customers of our ASN.
Owen
Just to clarify, there are both domestic transit and country specific
paid peering products out there in Asia/Pacific region.
and europe. and ...
randy
This is relatively common in europe too - normally under the name 'partial transit'.
paid peering: [provider AS] + [providers customers]
partial transit: [provider AS] + [providers customers] + [providers peers]
Pricing is typically 5-20% of the cost of full routes, and will provide in the region of 40-120k routes.
In Asia, there is a popular, but incorrectly named product offering
that many ISPs sell called "domestic transit" which they sell
for price $X; for "full routes" you often pay $2X-$3X. I grind my
teeth every time I hear it, since "transit" doesn't mean "to select
parts of the internet" in most people's eyes. It's really a paid
peering offering, but no matter how much I try to correct people,
the habit of calling it "domestic transit" still persists.This is relatively common in europe too - normally under the name 'partial transit'.
At least they are naming it correctly.
paid peering: [provider AS] + [providers customers]
partial transit: [provider AS] + [providers customers] + [providers peers]Pricing is typically 5-20% of the cost of full routes, and will provide in the region of 40-120k routes.
And pricing it correctly!
Let's see, transit is at $1/Mbps, so I can get 120K prefixes for $0.05/Mbps? <snicker>
Back when I was on that side of the house, if you bought transit from
7018 and were managing your own routers, you got your choice of BGP or
static, and BGP could have full routes, our-customer routes, default
routes, and maybe some other variants. No charge for any of those
options, but if you wanted full routes you'd need a hefty enough
router, and if you thought you wanted full routes on your T1 line we'd
offer you some hints about that not being a good idea. Other than
that, full routes burned a bit of extra bandwidth, so if you had
usage-based pricing that might have some minor effects.
(If we were managing your routers, you usually weren't in the
dual-homing business, or at least we'd be charging you more for a
fatter router and managing the extra complexity of whatever you needed
done locally, but all of that was just router management pricing, not
network pricing.)
I don't think there is a universally agreed upon definition of what
transit means other than it involves someone paying someone else.
Uhh, "transit" is an English word which comes from the Latin word
meaning "it goes across". Transit has nothing to do with payment
at all. The only thing that everybody agrees on is that transit is
carrying packets across your network to another network.
Clearly, you could give away free transit if it helps you sell
T-shirts, or data center racks or some such, so payment is
just not relevant at all.
The problem is that "full transit" is such a common thing, that many people
just assume that "transit" means "full transit" and there, the misunderstandings
begin, especially with people that haven't had experience with ISPs who
make up their own rules instead of just copying the one down the road.
I have no idea what the sales people call each in different
countries, but domestic transit is not a misnomer as the ISP
selling you this will be providing reacheability to their
country specific customer base AND reacheability to their
country specific peers.
Typically, sales people don't care about terminology and will happily
call "free transit", "paid peering" if it helps them make a sale.
But fundamentally, peering is about carrying packets from your
neighbor's network to destinations on your own network in return
for the same thing the other way around. Again, payment is not
part of the definition of peering.
Peering always involves two networks who are neighbors.
Transit always involves three or more networks who are
not neighbors and who have a third party network in
between them. The packets all have to transit the third
party network.
Most everything else is either marketing, or the jostling and adjustment
that happens when you discover that your business model isn't actually
profitable because you didn't think through your pricing structures in
enough detail, and some companies more clever than you have locked
in contracts that you really should not have signed at that price point.
--Michael Dillon
I had one provider once that wanted to charge me a surcharge simply for
the privilege of running BGP. The had "bgp charge" on their list of
things. Well, we were dual-homed to them and I asked how in the world
they expected to fail traffic over if we *didn't* run bgb. They should
be requiring I run bgp, not charging extra for it if they intend to meet
their own SLA. Static routing to a dead link is a surefire SLA killer.
The sales rep got a little red.
As for a full table, no, I have not paid extra for it.
Compared with some kind of reduced/waived fee for partial, or default only, or static routes ?
I have seen some of my customers get charged a set up fee (NRC) for bgp (beyond the port fee). Normally an indication to me that we're going to have problems with this supplier.... And I have never seen this as an MRC, but I guess it could happen. Run a mile if so.
Andy