Specialty Technical Publishers

Has anyone else has run into these scumbags? Sometime last winter I received a call along the lines of "We'd like to send you some materials to review". Well, they sent some "Internet Law encyclopedia" along with an invoice for ~$700. Of course, there was no cost mentioned in the sales call- for all I knew they were going to send me a brochure about their product. I can say with 100% certainty that I would never have authorized them to send me something like this had they mentioned the cost without much further discussion as to what I was receiving.

This is just a general heads-up to a sleazy business practice for a sleazy company that is now attempting to extort money.

Invoicing for unsolicited materials is commonly referred to as "mail fraud" hereabouts.
The courts have consistently upheld the notion that such materials can be considered gifts.
IANAL but I would advise /dev/nulling all further correspondence from these losers.

-- MAB

No... It is not a good idea to /dev/null it. If you /dev/null it, the
doctrine of Acquiescence by Estoppel works in their favor (essentially latin
legalise for "Silence is Consent"). Instead, you should write on the invoice
that you never agreed to purchase the items and send it back to them certified
mail. Make a copy of the invoice with your annotation and keep it for your
records.

At that point, they are pretty much stuck.

IANAL, but, this is what I've been told by lawyers.

Owen

Owen DeLong wrote:

No... It is not a good idea to /dev/null it. If you /dev/null it, the
doctrine of Acquiescence by Estoppel works in their favor (essentially latin
legalise for "Silence is Consent"). Instead, you should write on the invoice
that you never agreed to purchase the items and send it back to them certified
mail. Make a copy of the invoice with your annotation and keep it for your
records.

Thanks for the advice. I'm getting an opinion as to whether it is too late to follow this course, given that what led to my little outburst resulted from a call from their collections agency (I had actually asked to have it shipped back when it first arrived but the office manager had other more pressing things to do so it's been gathering dust, unopened except to look at the invoice). If we do send it back, it's going to be accompanied by an invoice for our shipping costs and time.

In any event, after doing some googling and finding other victims of this company, I've decided to register SpecialtyTechnicalPublishersSucks.com in order to publicly document their abuses. Sooner or later someone will have the time and resources to fight them all the way- perhaps I can lend some ammo.

So, this is an invitation to anyone who's had an experience with STP to submit it to me directly- I'll be happy to anonymize if requested when I publish it.

TIA,

Mike

Be very careful. After getting the serious shaft from a volkswagen
dealership, I went down that path and registered goldengatevw.com and
haywardvw.com, among others. I then posted a warning on them about the
owners shady history and business practices
( https://matt.ethereal.net/ggvw/ ),

Because of my actions, regardless of their legality or constitutional
protections, I am now spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal
fees defending myself from a 1.5 million dollar lawsuit.
( https://matt.ethereal.net/ggvw/mystory/ )

What I've learned about the process is that its not about who's
telling the truth. It's about who's got more money to spend on
lawyers.

matto

Aah, the wonders of dropping a site somewhere in China and forgetting about it. If spammers can do it....

If you put vague enough info into WHOIS, and host the site correctly (DNS on about seven free services ought to be enough, the actual site on a couple of round-robins pointed at things like servers overseas).

I didn't say it was ethical, but just think how much more money it costs the lawyers to try and find you.

(Which, if you lose, they'll pass on to you -- be careful).

It's about this point that I say this is why I like animals and computers and hate people.

-Dan

PS: Of course, Matt, for yourself, you're posting specific customer data. But the fact that they try to blame you for it tends to only strengthen your claim.

In any event, after doing some googling and finding other victims of
this company, I've decided to register
SpecialtyTechnicalPublishersSucks.com in order to publicly document
their abuses. Sooner or later someone will have the time and resources
to fight them all the way- perhaps I can lend some ammo.

Be very careful. After getting the serious shaft from a volkswagen
dealership, I went down that path and registered goldengatevw.com and
haywardvw.com, among others. I then posted a warning on them about the
owners shady history and business practices
( https://matt.ethereal.net/ggvw/ ),

Ah... But, the problem here is you registered "godengatevw.com" and
"haywardvw.com". They'd have a much harder time fending off an en
pro per motion for summary dismissal if you had registered domains
like "godengatevwsucks.com" and "haywardvwsucks.com". Because you
registered domains that directly use their trademarks without clear
indication that they are used without permission for commentary,
you are in a legal gray-area (gray is the expensive color in the
legal world). If you used those domains to sell cars, you'd be in a
legal black area and you could simply settle the suit and understand
that you were wrong. If you had registered names that clearly weren't
their names, but, commentary on them, you'd be pretty much in the
white zone from what attorneys have told me. You still might get sued,
and, it still might cost you some to defend it, but, you might get
away with a simple en pro per motion for summary dismissal on the grounds
that you were making fair comment. Of course, they could charge libel,
in which case, you'd have to defend yourself and prove that everything
said was factual.

Because of my actions, regardless of their legality or constitutional
protections, I am now spending tens of thousands of dollars on legal
fees defending myself from a 1.5 million dollar lawsuit.
( https://matt.ethereal.net/ggvw/mystory/ )

Did they ask you to hand over the domains (demand letter) and you refused,
or did they go straight to litigation?

What I've learned about the process is that its not about who's
telling the truth. It's about who's got more money to spend on
lawyers.

Partially. Although, you might still be able to characterize this as a
"SLAPP" suit. It's a stretch, but, might be worth a try. I believe that
entitles you to a certain amount of relief and some special handling of
your side of the case to make it easier for the little guy to fend off
injustice inflicted by the big guy.

matto

Anyway, this is way off NANOG topic, so, if you want to continue the
discussion, let's take it off the list before Susan tries to string
me up.

Owen

P.S. IANAL, but, I've talked to a lot of them, and, I have some experience
navigating the legal system on my own behalf (en pro per). YMMV.

Ah... But, the problem here is you registered "godengatevw.com" and
"haywardvw.com". They'd have a much harder time fending off an en
pro per motion for summary dismissal if you had registered domains
like "godengatevwsucks.com" and "haywardvwsucks.com". Because you
registered domains that directly use their trademarks without clear
indication that they are used without permission for commentary,
you are in a legal gray-area (gray is the expensive color in the
legal world). If you used those domains to sell cars, you'd be in a
legal black area and you could simply settle the suit and understand
that you were wrong. If you had registered names that clearly weren't
their names, but, commentary on them, you'd be pretty much in the
white zone from what attorneys have told me. You still might get sued,
and, it still might cost you some to defend it, but, you might get
away with a simple en pro per motion for summary dismissal on the grounds
that you were making fair comment. Of course, they could charge libel,
in which case, you'd have to defend yourself and prove that everything
said was factual.

Actually, their original broad injunction against me, obtained before
I even had a chance to secure counsel, was easily overturned by us in
an order to show cause hearing.

Your perception is incorrect. It does not matter what domain name I
legitimately register, my speech is protected regardless. The only
time they would have a legitimate cause for grievance were if I went
afoul of the lanham act by using "initial interest confusion" to
divert their customers for my own profit.

I really lucked out and found some excellent legal representation to
sort out these issues for me- including the lawyer representing the
People Eating Tasty Animals in their case against PETA.

Incedentally, it turns out that neither of their business names are
registered trademarks.

Did they ask you to hand over the domains (demand letter) and you refused,
or did they go straight to litigation?

Straight to litigation. I was informed that they were first aware of
the sites by their lawyer, who demanded I take down any content, or
see them in court.

Partially. Although, you might still be able to characterize this as a
"SLAPP" suit. It's a stretch, but, might be worth a try. I believe that
entitles you to a certain amount of relief and some special handling of
your side of the case to make it easier for the little guy to fend off
injustice inflicted by the big guy.

Unfortunately, a case has to be very clear cut and frivolous to
qualify as a possible SLAPP. In other words, it has to be a strong
possibility for a summary judgement before it even gets to judicial
arbitration. That's unfortunate, because a SLAPP judgement would have
allowed me to countersue for legal fees.

Anyway, this is way off NANOG topic, so, if you want to continue the
discussion, let's take it off the list before Susan tries to string
me up.

It seems there's others interested in the subject, and its a situation
that a lot of folks on the list could easily find themselves in. At
the very least, I'd like to be in the list archives offering
assistance and advice to anyone in the future in the same trouble.

matto

As I have seen the past few days, Susan seems to think quite a bit is
off topic...my personal perception of NANOG is it is a group of
network operators which talk about many things including but not
limited to those of the network operations stand point, I have even
been told that discussing email was off-topic and when has email not
been a core part of the network? I am all for Matt talking about the
litigation of this case, its a quite common thing now in the wonderful
world of the internet, so does that now not fall under rules?

Josh