Reply to Sean Donelan (was: Yet more hijacked space? - deru.net)

But it doesn't answer the basic questions. How do you tell the

difference

between a legitimate change and an illegitmate change? If ARIN makes it
extremely difficult to update registry records, the records will get even
more out of date. On the other hand if ARIN makes it too easy to update
registry records, the wrong people can make unauthorized changes.

That's a good question, Sean. However there is another way. ARIN and the
other RIRs need to stop publishing the whois directories as they stand
today. There is no good reason for publishing most of the information that
they do publish.

All of this garbage information clogs up the system and makes it easier
for spammers and outlaws to hide. The Internet is no longer a collegial
project where we can request that all people with a directory on an
ARPANET host who is capable of passing traffic across the ARPANET should
be registered in the whois directory. (Ref RFC 812)

In fact, we haven't done this for at least 10 years. We already have a
two-tiered system in place where the bulk of users with directories on an
Internet-connected system capable of initiating Internet traffic are only
registered with their service provider. Only network operators are
expected to register in the whois directory.

I think that it is time to tighten up on these requirements even further.
The published whois directory should only contain the up-to-date contact
information of people responsible for enforcing network AUPs and rooting
out network abuse. If an organization is allocated or assigned IP space
from their upstream then their info should not be published in the whois
directory unless they agree to be directly responsible for AUPs and abuse
mitigation. This contact information should be checked more than once per
year (twice yearly or quarterly) and if it becomes stale, then it should
be immediately updated to indicate that it is stale. The incorrect phone
numbers and email domains should be removed from the published directory.
If there is an upstream then the address contact info should revert to the
upstream since it is not possible for a non-contactible entity to be
responsible for AUP enforcement and abuse mitigation.

In the case of address blocks allocated directly by a registry, this means
they must virtually disappear from the whois. The only information left
will be "Previously allocated, no current contact info".

In one fell swoop, this will enable people to block just about every
possible source of spam. If anyone is actually still using their
addresses, this will also bring them out of the woodwork to update their
contact info and get with the program. There will be zero impact on anyone
who gets their addresses from an upstream since the contact info will
revert to the upstream until such time as the upstream fomrally delegates
the abuse handling responsibility to the customer by submitting correct
contact info.

Of course, none of this will happen unless network operators stop chasing
symptoms and start thinking more deeply about the roots of the problem.
One of these roots is the lack of a web of accountability for IP address
space.

--Michael Dillon

Well, I was a bit amased by the latest ARIN whois debate here. As far as
I can tell, the RIPE db is much more up to date, and (and this is
important) lists the date and emailaddress of all the changes to the
objects ... So where your comments might be a GoodThing(tm) for ARIN, I
don't think many Europeans have such issues with the RIPE db.

Kind Regards,
Frank Louwers

I think that it is time to tighten up on these requirements even further.
The published whois directory should only contain the up-to-date contact
information of people responsible for enforcing network AUPs and rooting
out network abuse. If an organization is allocated or assigned IP space
from their upstream then their info should not be published in the whois
directory unless they agree to be directly responsible for AUPs and abuse
mitigation.

This has got to be one of the worst ideas you've come up with recently.
The crack pipe must be pretty warm. This would make every provider like
Level3 and Cogent...hosters of spammers camouflaged by a lack of
publicly available reassignment data. At least with the current system,
most providers publish reassignment data, so when you get spammed by
discountdeals or ultimate savings, or the like, you can usually look up
their address space and block them. Too many providers just don't care
about spam as long as the spammers pay.

In one fell swoop, this will enable people to block just about every
possible source of spam.

I assume you mean it would make blocking bogons and unused blocks easier,
but I think the net result would be to make it much harder to block most
sources of spam.

Of course, none of this will happen unless network operators stop chasing
symptoms and start thinking more deeply about the roots of the problem.
One of these roots is the lack of a web of accountability for IP address
space.

So you want to fix this by making it even harder to find out who's using
an IP block?

Perhaps it is the water here in America, or bovine growth hormones in the milk.

The state of the RIPE db may have more to do with the cooperation of the RIPE
membership rather than the RIPE management. ARIN has the unenviable task of dealing
with American ISPs. Most ISPs in land of cowboys are run by ultra cowboys. They
don't cotton well to people in charge of resource management.

Of course ARIN is an organization made of of the vary ISPs that complain about
it. So, don't complain and not participate in ARIN meetings.

Go to the next meeting.

IMHO - The back to back NANOG/ARIN meeting are great opportunity for participation
by this community. I am glad that ARIN and the Merit folks have the vision to
bring these meetings together.

Most any problem can be resolved if we make an effort to work together toward a
solution.

This has got to be one of the worst ideas you've come up with recently.
The crack pipe must be pretty warm. This would make every provider like
Level3 and Cogent...hosters of spammers camouflaged by a lack of
publicly available reassignment data. At least with the current system,
most providers publish reassignment data, so when you get spammed by
discountdeals or ultimate savings, or the like, you can usually look up
their address space and block them. Too many providers just don't care
about spam as long as the spammers pay.

BS. Cogent provides publically available reassignment info in its rwhois
database.

Comment: ********************************************
Comment: Reassignment information for this block is
Comment: available at rwhois.cogentco.com port 4321
Comment: ********************************************

Not for all of their blocks...at the very least, not for ones acquired via
PSI.

$ whois 38.144.198.0@rwhois.cogentco.com:4321
[rwhois.cogentco.com]
%rwhois V-1.5:0010b0:00 rwhois.cogentco.com
%Error 230 No objects found.

There are multiple systems in 38.144.198.0/24 spewing spam. How do you
tell who they belong to and how much address space they have?

Fortunately, in this case, reverse DNS and traceroutes make it pretty
clear this is a single (entire) /24 of spammer systems.

Query: 38.144.198.0
Registry: whois.arin.net
Results:

OrgName: Performance Systems International Inc.
OrgID: PSI
Address: 1015 31st Street, NW
City: Washington
StateProv: DC
PostalCode: 20007
Country: US

NetRange: 38.0.0.0 - 38.255.255.255
CIDR: 38.0.0.0/8
NetName: PSINETA
NetHandle: NET-38-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS.PSI.NET
NameServer: NS2.PSI.NET
Comment:
RegDate: 1991-04-16
Updated: 2003-03-14
                                                                                
TechHandle: PSI-NISC-ARIN
TechName: PSINet, Inc.
TechPhone: +1-518-283-8860
TechEmail: hostinfo@psi.com
                                                                                
OrgAbuseHandle: COGEN-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Cogent Abuse
OrgAbusePhone: +1-877-875-4311
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@cogentco.com
                                                                                
OrgNOCHandle: ZC108-ARIN
OrgNOCName: Cogent Communications
OrgNOCPhone: +1-877-875-4311
OrgNOCEmail: noc@cogentco.com
                                                                                
OrgTechHandle: IPALL-ARIN
OrgTechName: IP Allocation
OrgTechPhone: +1-877-875-4311
OrgTechEmail: ipalloc@cogentco.com