[Re: This may be stupid but.. ]

A willingness, nay - a NEED, to learn and be open to new concepts is
what forward moving technology sectors (like ours I hope) need.

definately - however, i know of some very smart people, with a huge
drive to learn, were relegated to clueless tasks because they didn't have
many many years of experience. there is a distrubing trend amongst
managers/etc where they think that if you haven't already done the job
for several years, you can't learn to do it, or don't have the skill to
do it. i am not saying that this is universal (as demonstrated by
several posts here to that effect), but i think that these are exceptions

Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively
avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them
like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.

certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you
were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified
'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are
probably not needed.

experience is a catch-22, you need experience to get a job, but you need
a job to get experience. i am not saying that certifications are a
panacea, but lacking the ability to say that i built $major_isp, my certs
have helped me (a little) in getting past the recruiter/hr to where my
technical skills can be demonstrated

> i'm recruiter-proof. i'm not sure i'd want anyone who wasn't.

Aye. I have *never* used my CV/Resume in getting a job. I still have
one, but it's very out of date.

never is a long time

perhaps it is just the fact that i am 'new' to the field, but my resume
has gotten me all but one job, and my resume indirectly got me that one.

my slightly bitter $0.02

/joshua

Peter

"Walk with me through the Universe,
And along the way see how all of us are Connected.
Feast the eyes of your Soul,
On the Love that abounds.
In all places at once, seemingly endless,
Like your own existence."
     - Stephen Hawking -

Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people
that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG.

> Acronyms mean sh*t. When involved in any hiring process, I actively
> avoid CCIE/MSCE/etc. laden resumes. Mentioning once, fine. Using them
> like religious phrases is an indictation of, well, stupidity.

certifications are often necessary to open the door - granted if you
were architecting internetworks when many of today's certified
'engineers' were still in grade school, then no, certifications are
probably not needed.

I consider myself one of the 'old guys' and all the experience in the
world doesn't mean &%*$&%*$ to a recruiter OR a company hiring manager
if you don't have the magic initials they've heard about behind your
name. I was always too busy doing my 'real job' making the customers
happy so I never spent time getting 'useless' certifications or
developing networking relationships with other professionals for later
use.

Those of you with jobs, be very careful not to be lured into that trap.
You've got to think of your future first and foremost. No one else
will.

Tim McKee

John Brown (CV) writes on 11/10/2003 11:43 AM:

Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people
that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG.

Sure thing.

To: joshua sahala <joshua.ej.smith@usa.net>
Cc: Peter Galbavy <peter.galbavy@knowtion.net>,
  Richard Irving <rirving@onecall.net>,
  Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine <brunner@nic-naa.net>,
  Vadim Antonov <avg@kotovnik.com>,
  "Nanog List (E-mail)" <nanog@merit.edu>
Subject: stop the CC'ing Re: [Re: This may be stupid but.. ]

Ironic, isn't it?

Hey folks, can you please stop the CC'ing of people
that have responded to this thread. Just reply to NANOG.

procmail is your friend

# ----------------------------------------------------------

FYI,

The job posting that I put on the list is old. I meant it only as an
example. It was filled in late 2002.

Thanks for the interest,

Doug Luce
Telerama Internet