RE: Statements against new.net?

From: mdevney@teamsphere.com [mailto:mdevney@teamsphere.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:57 PM

Actually, I'm enamoured of someone's idea to just blackhole
new.net and
let them figure out how to sort that. Saves me a whole lot
of trouble, I
just get to ask the customer where they got the idea that
.xxx was a valid
tld.

If we all do that (And yes I can see a significant [10%+]
fraction of this
group's readership doing it), then the problem goes away
soon. An elegant
fix, except that new.net would probably sue anyone who
blackholed them...

Indeed they would. It is even likely that they'd win. Such action wouldn't
win ICANN any favours in Congress either.

> [... Blackholing new.net...]
> If we all do that (And yes I can see a significant [10%+]
> fraction of this
> group's readership doing it), then the problem goes away
> soon. An elegant
> fix, except that new.net would probably sue anyone who
> blackholed them...

Indeed they would. It is even likely that they'd win. Such action wouldn't
win ICANN any favours in Congress either.

I am not an American and not really familiar with US laws and political
thinking, but why is it that it is considered OKfor someone to break away from,
ignore the DNS root system, but not for others to blackhole a player whose traffic
they don't want to see. What laws would prohibit the latter while not affeting the
former?

Mathias

Mathias Koerber wrote:

I am not an American and not really familiar with US laws and
political thinking, but why is it that it is considered OKfor someone
to break away from, ignore the DNS root system, but not for others to
blackhole a player whose traffic they don't want to see. What laws
would prohibit the latter while not affeting the former?

IANAL, so take this as one man's understanding and not necessarily the
absolute truth....

Take an analogy from the oil industry. If Exxon lowers its prices,
there's no problem. If Chevron, Hess, Citgo and Sunoco all see Exxon's
action and decide to lower their prices in turn, in order to compete
with Exxon, there's no problem. If Jim's gas-n-gulp can't compete with
those prices and goes out of business, oh well, that's business.

BUT if representatives from Exxon, Chevron, Hess, Citgo and Sunoco all
got together and agreed to lower their prices in unison for the express
purpose of running Jim's gas-n-gulp out of business, and then did it,
they would be in violation of US anti-trust laws.

Putting this in the context of the new.net discussion, if an ISP chooses
to blackhole new.net, they can. It doesn't matter what the reason is -
nobody can force anybody else to carry someone else's traffic (barring
things like common-carrier status, of course.) If a dozen or a hundred
ISPs independantly choose to do blackhole new.net, they are similarly
free to do so. And if new.net can't remain in business as a result of
this, oh well, that's business.

BUT if representatives from a dozen or a hundred ISPs meet together and
choose to blackhole new.net for the explicit purpose of running them out
of business, and then do so, they would be in violation of US anti-trust
laws.

-- David

BUT if representatives from a dozen or a hundred ISPs meet
together and
choose to blackhole new.net for the explicit purpose of
running them out
of business, and then do so, they would be in violation of US
anti-trust
laws.

-- David

But what if a quasi-government organization (ICANN) explicitly blessed
the concept of banning alternate roots :slight_smile: Now there is a can of
worms...

Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
(419) 833-3635

You mean, like the owners and operators of numerous core US networks
getting together on an archived mailing list like this one, and openly
discussing the idea of putting new.net out of business by various means
(blackholing them, legally pressuring them, etc)?

You're right, that might constitute violation of anti-trust law. :slight_smile: But
what do I know? I'm no lawyer.

I'm no lawyer either, but it seems that intent is a pretty hard case to
make. I would think that network operators could take a couple of different
paths to blackholing new.net:
1) Looking at the plan and realizing that it is going to increase their
support costs with no increase in profits, therefore as a defensive
measure and to protect their own resources, an ISP chooses to blackhole
new.net

2) Waiting until support calls start to come in wrt to problems that
the new.net plugin/alternate roots/whatever creates, and then blackholing
new.net.

(option #1 seems more preferable, just to avoid the customer who says
"well it was working last week, how come it doesn't work now?" issues.)

Neither of these options says anything at all about intent to run them
out of business, and says much about intent to keep the isp in business.

-ron