RE: Regional differences in P2P

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Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
I would also like to add that over here Direct Connect is
quite common among the more organized and hard-core file
swappers, while the really-hardcore guys of course are
still using private ftp servers.

There is some private FTP server use in the US as well; it is difficult
to measure the bandwidth it uses, as it often involves encryption and
therefore is inventoried as miscellaneous traffic by probes. I am not a
hardcore file swapper, but like everyone else I granted access to my FTP
to a few buddies. However, it works only over VPN: no static IP and no
encryption, no FTP (there also is an unwritten clause about red wine).

I believe that Europeans tend to underestimate American private FTP
usage (and vice-versa) because it is more difficult for someone from the
other side of the pond to penetrate the relatively private circles of
private FTP file sharing.

With proliferation of 10 meg ethernet (full duplex) connections
for residential use in (especially) northern europe and in asia,
users are more likely to serve content to other users around the
world.

Note that 10meg Ethernet full-duplex is becoming available in the US as
well. Where I live (Sacramento, California) we have this:
http://personal.surewest.com/internet/highspeed10mb.php
Note that they cap the service at 40 GB/mo, which still is ~40 movies,
more than I can watch :slight_smile:

My interpretation of this is that p2p networks are quite
intelligent in using the available bandwidth, and that
Copyright holders only solution is a "content crunch" due
to providers limiting their users upload potential due to
heavy usage, such as capping the amount of bandwidth
allowed per month or alike.

I agree, but see above: a 40GB/mo cap is not something that I care
about. Granted, I'm not a hardcore file swapper but 40GB/mo are more
than enough for most including myself. As shown here:
http://arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us/mrtg/192.168.222.1_et0_0.html
My usage last month was 2 GB and the average over the last 20 months was
8GB/mo. And I do share some files.

Petri Helenius wrote:
If you leave BitTorrent out, which is probably the fastest
growing protocol out there, the statistics are missing about
one third of the bits moved.

BitTorrent is a third of p2p traffic in Sweden? Wow. In the US it is a
small blip on the radar.

My reading about the big five is as follows:

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I don't know of any capped service over here, nobody dares take the first
step. The largest 10meg provider here launched a new 100 meg full duplex
service for their approx 200.000 household reach at USD$110 a month with a
300G cap (their 10 meg service for $45 a month is uncapped) and there has
been a fair amount of users complaining about 300G not being nearly
enough. When you start swapping DVDRs it just isn't.

If they capped their 10M service I believe there would be a riot.

I know a few smaller providers who use netflow or alike to find their very
high-bw consuming customers and then put them into a ratelimit access
list and limit their outgoing traffic. This is probably the best way to
go, instead of capping you limit their speed. It requires that you have
hardware that'll do this, which can be hard for larger ISPs. Smaller ones
have an easier time finding scalable solutions.

3

I don't know of any capped service over here, nobody dares take the first
step.

Not 10 Mbps but: Telenor, the largest Norwegian service provider,
capped their ADSL customers at a ridiculously low 1 Gbyte/month for a
while. Presumably they lost sufficient business to other (uncapped)
providers that they noticed - the cap has now been removed.

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

4

What did they do when customer went over the limit?

That is the big issue, households want to control their spending and
automatically charging them more if they do more, is not very popular.

5

> Not 10 Mbps but: Telenor, the largest Norwegian service provider,
> capped their ADSL customers at a ridiculously low 1 Gbyte/month for a
> while. Presumably they lost sufficient business to other (uncapped)
> providers that they noticed - the cap has now been removed.

What did they do when customer went over the limit?

Reduced the speed to 64 kbps (made possible with Juniper ERX and its
provisioning system). Thus the customer would not be blocked, but it
would be quite noticeable that the cap had been reached.

During the period when the 1 Gbyte cap was in effect, the customers
could increase the cap - for a fee (I don't remember how much).

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no

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Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:

Not 10 Mbps but: Telenor, the largest Norwegian service provider,
capped their ADSL customers at a ridiculously low 1 Gbyte/month for a
while. Presumably they lost sufficient business to other (uncapped)
providers that they noticed - the cap has now been removed.

What did they do when customer went over the limit?

That is the big issue, households want to control their spending and
automatically charging them more if they do more, is not very popular.

Hi

Here in S�o Paulo state, Brazil, telefonica (yeah, the same spanish one)
caps ADSL too , they have the 128kbit dsl capped at 500MB, 300kbit
capped at 3000MB, 450kbps capped at 10500MB and 600kbps capped at
20000MB. no uncapped service available (except for old contracts), and
they charge about US$ 0.03 (R$ 0.10) for each megabyte above the quota.

Hopefully, their right to charge this is suspended by law, for now :slight_smile:

They also have a service where you pay per-hour (about US$ 0.65/ hour)
for 1mbit/128 service, and skipping the quota (whatever you transfer
while paying for this does not count on the quota)

Unfortunately, there is a monopoly in DSL service :frowning:

Cya
Evaldo Gardenali

7

Evaldo Gardenali wrote:

Here in S�o Paulo state, Brazil, telefonica (yeah, the same spanish one)
caps ADSL too , they have the 128kbit dsl capped at 500MB, 300kbit
capped at 3000MB, 450kbps capped at 10500MB and 600kbps capped at
20000MB. no uncapped service available (except for old contracts), and
they charge about US$ 0.03 (R$ 0.10) for each megabyte above the quota.

Dishnet DSL (www.ddsl.net) in India - which is now borged by Tata Indicom (which borged VSNL when it was privatized) - 512K DSL capped at 1 GB a month costs around $70 / mo. Something like 8 cents per MB extra

Yes I know it sucks, as does their service (ravening backhoe took out a bunch of cable so service to most of southern Madras was cut off for almost 12 hours today - but it's pretty bad when it is up anyway).

  srs

8

Michel Py wrote:

BitTorrent is a third of p2p traffic in Sweden? Wow. In the US it is a
small blip on the radar.

Should hold water for Sweden too. Wonder why so many of the bittorrent streams terminate in the US if it's not on your radar. Maybe time for finetuning the radar ...

Pete

9

BitTorrent is in my "top ten" tcp ports in my netflow.

  right after https and pop3(non-ssl/110 port) in some of my
more recent data, but is in the top 5 in some parts of my network
as well.

  - jared