OT: Server Cabinet

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1

Sorry to start the day OT, but I'm sure you lovely lot will have some
tips/experience! :wink:

We have a HP Server Cabinet (42U 10842 G2), that we've stripped down to the
bare-bones chassis. It now measures 750mm wide.

We have a door-way that said server cabinet must fit through, measuring up
at 620mm.

The cabinet chassis is welded at all four corners, so can't be taken apart
any more without being cut.

Can you see where this is leading yet? Three obvious questions:

1) Have you ever had to fit a cabinet through a doorway that's too small?
2) How did you do it? Cut cabinet, demolish wall ...?
3) If you cut the cabinet, any tips?

Thanks.
Rob

2

This may be a silly question but.. How did it get in there?

3

Is there no other entrance that's wider, perhaps a window/skylight?

Cutting-up a cabinet (only to find that it's pretty impossible to make
it sturdy again) or demolishing the wall may well be more costly than
hiring a fork lift/crane, etc.

Just musing..

Tom

4

I'm assuming that it's not yet "in there" :slight_smile:

I'd probably knock the wall down and fit a more reasonably sized door -
620mm (2') seems a bit narrow for a door anyway.

One could of course get a 600mm wide rack instead ...

Regards,
James

5

I've removed the doorframe before, and usually replaced with a wider doorframe later.

                -Bill

6

Not a silly question my fault for not making clear - cabinet is still
outside the room ... yet to go in.

And, no other entrance points. Room is below ground level, with a stupidly
narrow door frame. Old client building, with a room not originally designed
for purpose.

Short of scrapping this cabinet, and looking for one where the chassis
unbolts also?

Rob

7

In article <BANLkTin4qhFifiTeFcnZ+EU_02-h=wDf+w@mail.gmail.com>, Robert Lusby <nanogwp@gmail.com> writes

1) Have you ever had to fit a cabinet through a doorway that's too small?

Yes, but it was height not width

2) How did you do it? Cut cabinet, demolish wall ...?

by taking the fan tray off the top and the wheels off the bottom (I realise you've already stripped it down as far as you can go).

3) If you cut the cabinet, any tips?

Also - do you ever want to get the cabinet back out (in one piece)?

ps My solution would be to buy a similar sized cabinet (assuming a slimmer one won't do) that needs assembling, and feed the parts through the door, rather than the complete item.

8

In article <BANLkTin1qSUj_knOaMc4N+yaMe0odz3ROQ@mail.gmail.com>, Robert Lusby <nanogwp@gmail.com> writes

Short of scrapping this cabinet

If you have no other use for it - sell on eBay! That's where my spare cabinet went last year.

9

I agree. Put the too big rack up on ebay and get a smaller one (or one you can get through the door. This is gotta be cheaper than knocking down, dust abatement and rebuilding a wall. I am not big on cutting the rack unless you know a ME and a really good welder and that may still not be cheaper than sell and buy new.

Tom

10

Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 09:43:53 +0100
Subject: OT: Server Cabinet
From: Robert Lusby <nanogwp@gmail.com>

Sorry to start the day OT, but I'm sure you lovely lot will have some
tips/experience! :wink:

We have a HP Server Cabinet (42U 10842 G2), that we've stripped down to the
bare-bones chassis. It now measures 750mm wide.

We have a door-way that said server cabinet must fit through, measuring up
at 620mm.

The cabinet chassis is welded at all four corners, so can't be taken apart
any more without being cut.

Can you see where this is leading yet? Three obvious questions:

1) Have you ever had to fit a cabinet through a doorway that's too small?
2) How did you do it? Cut cabinet, demolish wall ...?
3) If you cut the cabinet, any tips?

Comment: you need to recognize that you are 'making trouble'. At _some_
point in the future, there will be a need to remove said cabinet from that
location, and the issue will rear it's ugly head *again*.

Suggestion: If there is no alternative to that narrow doorway, consider:
   a) getting a *different* cabinet -- one that _will_ dis-assemble.
   b) if 'all else fails', _widen_ the doorway. Thus permanently resolving
      the issue.

Option (a) _is_ going to be less time/effort/money than any other alternative.

11

> Can you see where this is leading yet? Three obvious questions:
>
> 1) Have you ever had to fit a cabinet through a doorway that's too small?
> 2) How did you do it? Cut cabinet, demolish wall ...?
> 3) If you cut the cabinet, any tips?

Comment: you need to recognize that you are 'making trouble'. At _some_
point in the future, there will be a need to remove said cabinet from that
location, and the issue will rear it's ugly head *again*.

Suggestion: If there is no alternative to that narrow doorway, consider:
   a) getting a *different* cabinet -- one that _will_ dis-assemble.
   b) if 'all else fails', _widen_ the doorway. Thus permanently resolving
      the issue.

Option (a) _is_ going to be less time/effort/money than any other alternative.

Good comments so far. I didn't see this one though:

It's admittedly far from ideal in some ways, but a great way to deal
with this sort of situation can be to get a pair of two-post open
frame relay racks; most of them bolt together and can be put just
about anywhere. Many times we forget that these can be used as the
front and back of a single rack. Remember to tie them together if
you go that route, attachment to a wall or up top highly recommended
as well.

Of course, this only works if you didn't really need doors on your
rack, etc.

... JG

12

It's admittedly far from ideal in some ways, but a great way to deal
with this sort of situation can be to get a pair of two-post open
frame relay racks; most of them bolt together and can be put just
about anywhere. Many times we forget that these can be used as the
front and back of a single rack. Remember to tie them together if
you go that route, attachment to a wall or up top highly recommended
as well.

I've gone this route. Plusses are you can have pretty much any depth you

want. If you can bolt them to the floor they're really stable.

13

Hi Rob,

My first reaction on hearing that you have a two-foot doorway to move
this cabinet through is: what else is wrong with the room that makes
it entirely unsuitable for hosting a server cabinet? There's adequate
power behind a home bathroom-size doorway? Adequate cooling? Adequate
clearance around the cabinet once past the doorway?

An HP 10642 cabinet is 597mm wide. Ditch the extra-wide cabinet and
use 1U power strips instead of the so-called zero-U jobbies. A 10636
cabinet is shorter too, making it easier to fit in small spaces.

-Bill

14

If you have a need for a 4-post rack, do not accomplish that by using 2 2-post racks. You will likely find that rack rails that are designed for a 4-post rack will not fit.

Get an open-frame 4-post rack. It will come unassembled. It will also likely be no more costly that 2 2-post racks.

-Randy

15

I was about to suggest that. Chatsworth actually makes hardware just for this.

http://www.chatsworth.com/uploadedFiles/Files/50110_CUT.pdf

We have a number of these which we've used to convert left over 2-post relay racks into sturdy 4-post racks.

16

If you have a need for a 4-post rack, do not accomplish that by using 2 2-po=
st racks. You will likely find that rack rails that are designed for a 4-pos=
t rack will not fit.

Why? With *any* rack, there are always scenarios where the rack rails for
some random item don't end up fitting right. That's certainly not a problem
inherent to two 2-post racks. You can find 2-post racks in any number of
interesting and unusual post/flange configurations. It's certainly true
that picking any old random 2-post rack has certain hazards associated with
it - the solution is don't pick "any old random" one, not "don't pick a
2-post rack." But the look-before-buying rule applies to any rack you buy,
doesn't it?

Get an open-frame 4-post rack. It will come unassembled.

Most of the open-frame 4-post racks I've seen are actually less sturdy
than two 2-post racks; the 2-post racks are generally designed to hold
a Lot Of Stuff. In other words, many 4-post racks are not really
designed for that much weight. For example, look at the Middle Atlantic
Slim 5, which only has a weight capacity of 400 pounds.

http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/knock/slim5.htm

The RL10-45, on the other hand, has a 1600 lb weight capacity,

http://www.middleatlantic.com/dcm/rack/rl.htm

so double that for two of them and then reduce it for a safety margin
and you have maybe 2000 lb capacity. I can probably *find* four-post
units with greater weight capacity, but I suspect that two 2-post racks
will tend to have greater capacity just because the design of a 2-post
unit is more likely to allow for heavy gear being mounted on it.

Now of course we have no idea what's going to be mounted in this, but
it's an HP rack so I assume maybe HP servers, which tend towards the
heavy.

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/racks/10000series-g2/index.html

suggests a 2000lb maximum static load requirement.

It will also likely=
be no more costly that 2 2-post racks.

Hm. Maybe.

Distributor:

SLIM 5 KNOCK DOWN 37 SP, 20" DEEP $275.99
MIDDLE ATLANTIC - U.S.

Found online:
"APW/MAYVILLE MNF1970DM MODULAR NETWORKING FRAME, 19inHPS, 70.00inVPS, 40U, 10-32, 75.25inH, BLACK (DAT.MNF1970DM)" - SaleStores.com 305-652-0442 $90.78

So I'm a little skeptical about that too.

... JG

17

In a message written on Wed, May 04, 2011 at 10:09:33AM +0100, Robert Lusby wrote:

And, no other entrance points. Room is below ground level, with a stupidly
narrow door frame. Old client building, with a room not originally designed
for purpose.

I think folks can help you find a bolt together rack, but I urge
you to think one step further.

I'm making an assumption that this is a fairly small room, a closet
or similar. I do that because even in an old building a room would
not likely have a 2' doorway. This raises several questions:

Would you be able to get to both sides of the rack and side things
all the way out to service them in this space?

How are you going to cool the space?

Are the power circuits in that room up to powering a full rack of
equipment?

Will fan and equipment noise annoy adjacent rooms?

18

Once upon a time, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> said:

Now of course we have no idea what's going to be mounted in this, but
it's an HP rack so I assume maybe HP servers, which tend towards the
heavy.

One thing about using a 2-post rack for servers that can be a problem is
that most 2-post racks I've seen have tapped holes, ready for screws,
and some server rails (such as Dell) pretty much require square hole or
round hole racks instead. You can get third-party server rails that
will work with a tapped hole rack, but that's an extra expense (and
irritation).

19

Once upon a time, Joe Greco <jgreco@ns.sol.net> said:
> Now of course we have no idea what's going to be mounted in this, but
> it's an HP rack so I assume maybe HP servers, which tend towards the
> heavy.

One thing about using a 2-post rack for servers that can be a problem is
that most 2-post racks I've seen have tapped holes, ready for screws,
and some server rails (such as Dell) pretty much require square hole or
round hole racks instead. You can get third-party server rails that
will work with a tapped hole rack, but that's an extra expense (and
irritation).

That's a good point. Without knowing the intended equipment load, it
is difficult to give good advice on this part.

However, since it's an HP rack, an obvious guess might be HP servers,
and I will note that the HP rails I've seen, while designed for square
or round hole racks, do allow the little peglets to be removed, and
are then compatible with most racks I've seen. Unfortunately they
have a thread-lock compound on them, so be prepared to sit down with
a flat blade power screwdriver and some pliers; removal is about 2
minutes per set of rails that way.

I've come to like the HP server gear a whole lot more than Dell over
the years. Little things like that are one of the reasons.

... JG

20

If you have a need for a 4-post rack, do not accomplish that by using 2 2-po=
st racks. You will likely find that rack rails that are designed for a 4-pos=
t rack will not fit.

Possibly, though you can usually order "universal" rails to fit tapped-hole racks. It's a hassle, and usually an unaccounted expense. And IME these rails aren't nearly as nice on your hands and sanity as the snap-in rails most server mfrs ship standard.

Get an open-frame 4-post rack. It will come unassembled.

I'd suggest getting an actual cabinet that you can order unassembled. I'm thinking specifically of the excellent CPI Megaframe cabinets. The only parts that don't knock down are the bases, tops, doors and sides - and you can carry those easily through the door. The uprights and braces are extruded aluminum, and then your actual mounting rails (in square hole, round punched, tapped threads, or any combination) are steel, bolted inside of those.

When we closed one datacenter and found we had to scrap 40 of these things (!!!) I took apart four and they all fit inside my normal-sized car. They were very easy to then carry down the winding narrow staircase to my basement. :wink:

If you're very tight on space inside the room, you can get different door options, or just omit them entirely. This changes your thermal and acoustical management, but I'm guessing you already have some challenges there, if your door is any indication.

These CPI cabinets are not cheap, but they are very nice, can be carried through tight/low doorways in lightweight sections, and have considerable load ratings. 2000 pounds I think.

All that said, I have removed and disassembled door frames, ceilings, walls, whatever to deal with whatever issues where we couldn't take racks apart or otherwise spend our way through it. This doesn't work so well when you have concrete walls, welded doorframes, or unforgiving landlords. :wink: