links on the blink (fwd)

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Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 12:48:36 -0800 (PST)

  >From: Michael Dillon <michael@memra.com>
  >Subject: Re: links on the blink (fwd)

  >Uh... Ignore it?
  >10% packet loss is quite within the normal range of parameters for a
  >packet switching network such as the Internet.

I must disagree here. 10% packet loss within national backbones is a
problem to be fixed as soon as possible. It is not something to be
tolerated. An examination of some of the interconnect points will find
providers talking across media that is far past saturation, and is
at capacity.

The good news is that from my point of view, these things are being
addressed. Not as quickly as everyone would like (including me), but
it's happening.
  
  >> my regional service provider. There is no quality control at the
  >> inter-ISP level. I want to see that fixed.
  >
  >But nothing is broken. There is no inter-ISP level. ISP's buy access to
  >the global network from and NSP and resell those access rights to you.
  >Instead of millions of inter-ISP relationships, there is only one (or a
  >few for multi-homed ISP's) relationship to negotiate and to manage.

Assuming Hans-Werner meant inter-NSP, I must differ with both of
you.. There *is* quality control at the inter-NSP level. But there are
things broken, as I said. There are also a bunch of folks working night
and day to make sure it works as well as it does, and a bunch more
trying to make it get better.

Speaking only for myself...

    RobS

2

  >From: Michael Dillon <michael@memra.com>

  >Uh... Ignore it?
  >10% packet loss is quite within the normal range of parameters for a
  >packet switching network such as the Internet.

I must disagree here. 10% packet loss within national backbones is a
problem to be fixed as soon as possible.

Continuous 10% packet loss does need to be fixed. But the nature of
Internet traffic is such that it can *NOT* be eliminated. There will
always be bursts of packet loss like this no matter what the architecture.
This may change if and when the nature of Internet traffic changes but
for now that is a given.

It is not something to be
tolerated. An examination of some of the interconnect points will find
providers talking across media that is far past saturation, and is
at capacity.

The good news is that from my point of view, these things are being
addressed. Not as quickly as everyone would like (including me), but
it's happening.

In fact, it was on the NANOG list here that Sean and somebody else
recently discussed Sprint's and MCI's plans to add many two-way
interchange points between their networks to take some load off the NAPS
because the NAP architecture just wasn't working out in practice.

In other words, the problem is known, has been publicly acknowledged, a
solution has been discussed and NSP's have publicly announced that they
are deploying that solution. Seems fine to me.

  >> my regional service provider. There is no quality control at the
  >> inter-ISP level. I want to see that fixed.
  >
  >But nothing is broken. There is no inter-ISP level. ISP's buy access to

Assuming Hans-Werner meant inter-NSP, I must differ with both of
you.. There *is* quality control at the inter-NSP level.

Correct terminology means everything doesn't it? :wink:

things broken, as I said. There are also a bunch of folks working night
and day to make sure it works as well as it does, and a bunch more
trying to make it get better.

And some of us do appreciate your hard work and do understand that you
don't have any magic wands to wave.

Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022
Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-542-4130
http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com