Howdy,
We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y’all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
I haven’t used any of theses…
Check out Adtran Total Access 5000 Platform…. Used by a lot of EoC / EoDS1 carriers
Google: Ethernet Extender DSLAM
https://enableit.com/rackmount-extender/
+1 for Adtran TA5000 … we use them, my former employer uses them with great success. There’s also the Calix series of gear that is quite good too …
I’d consider breaking down the two functions.
Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I’d use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I’m not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I’ve never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
Carl,
What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000’s today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE’s.
Why only ADSL2+?
What are you doing for voice?
Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
I haven’t used any of theses…
Check out Adtran Total Access 5000 Platform…. Used by a lot of EoC / EoDS1 carriers
Google: Ethernet Extender DSLAM
https://enableit.com/rackmount-extender/
Firstly, thanks everyone for replies.
@Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room.
As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it. These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call credit which is likely included in their monthly “complex maintenance” fees.
If you're wanting to buy used gear, ADSL2+ DSLAMs are indeed probably cheaper, but you might have trouble finding native IP/Ethernet ones. A lot of the older stuff predating the VDSL era was very ATM-centric.
I'm not sure anyone's still really making ADSL2+-only DSLAMs, so I'm not sure a 1:1 cost comparison is even possible on new gear.
Note that most VDSL/VSDL2 DSLAMs do support ADSL2/ADSL2+ fallback, so you're not stuck with VDSL if you do have a problematic link, and you've got a bit more future-proofing. You can also get G.FAST DSLAMs with VDSL and ADSL2 fallback if you wanted to really have some future-proofing.
800m is probably pushing it for G.FAST, but VDSL2 should run on that just fine even on crummy old voice-grade copper. Depending on how it's bundled, you might not be able to use every pair in a cable for VDSL2, but if you're putting POTS on a separate pair, that means half your pairs right there are not running DSL at all. Again, with most VDSL DSLAMs, you've got the option of ADSL2 fallback if you do need it on the long-distance links.
ADSL2 does have the advantage that you can (probably) run POTS+DSL on the same pair if you need to. I'm not sure that's possible with VDSL, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong.
drats that last @ should have been to Colton, my apologies…
I have in past used dlink and planet dslams as they were back then dirt cheap, I guess I might have to look at a small mikrotik device that can do all my requirements, just trying to use the KISS approach, as I’m the contractor installing it and wont be the one running it on a day to day as-needed basis, thats their admissions staff who will add/delete them
Indstead of using a Vega 3050 for voice I would just get a DSLAM with a Combo card, and be done with it. VDSL2+ ports plus SIP FXS all on the same card. With that you get metalic testing which would be good for your situation.
How many units are you talking about? Do you have access to Coaxial cable?
Thanks, do you have any brand DSLAM with combo card in mind?
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building).
I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense.
If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far.
They don’t have a large budget and although I’m yet to get prices on adtran’s (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it’s looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I’ve had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I’d rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 
Might want to look for old Zhone ip bitstorm dslams. There should be a bunch on the used market. They do all of the ATM conversions internally so you just need to feed them with ethernet.
You might start hunting on the used market for Occam/Calix B6 equipment, specifically the B6-252 ADSL2+ and POTS card and the 12 slot chassis.
You’ll have to put in some supporting infrastructure, but they do work well, and I know of at least two aftermarket repair places that will repair them for a reasonable (for the telecom world) cost.
Just a thought, would a two wire Ethernet extender technology (eg Phybridge) provide you with a simpler solution? xDSL needs a lot of infrastructure for a low port count (& budget) application.
I have no idea if you can split the baseband out to provide POTS over the same pair, but even if you can’t, Ethernet plus a VoIP phone or ATA to each unit may end up cheaper than a shed load of carrier oriented xDSL infra?
Are you sure you need all of that?
When I designed ADSL solutions ~15 years ago I built with Paradyne DSLAM with ethernet uplink, then we used rfc 1483 bridged over ATM, so no need for PPP, radius or anything. It was just IPoETHERNEToATM and all the regular IPoE mechanisms could be used (DHCP etc).
So we just bundled the DSLAM with an L3 switch and that was that. One vlan per customer which solved the customer isolation problem. Customer could run modem in either bridged mode or terminate the IPoETHoATM PVC on the RG itself.
I was thinking the same thing. They’re a few years out of support, but the Zhone 42xx IP DSLAM provides a 1Gbps ethernet uplink and 24 ADSL2+ DSL user ports per 1U chassis (stackable to achieve 192 ports total). Wish they were available in AC for non-telco use.
You could pair these with a pfSense appliance (or an x86 PC running the free software) to provide DHCP, DNS, etc - or use the built in pfSense captive portal to provide additional authentication and accounting per user. pfSense can provide NAT and FW if needed, or these features can be disabled to use globally routable IP4/IP6 addresses. As far as support goes, backup your pfsense and DLSAM configs when you finish the project and the subscriber accounts and DSL modems could be maintained by a local admin through the pfSense web interface with no need to touch the DSLAMs or anything CLI. --Blake
The “newer” replacement for the 42xx series was the bitstorm (Bitstorm-RP2-152-AC), and they came in AC as well and 48 ports – in a 1.5 U I think .
Yep, that's probably the one you want to look at. I've got one on a shelf. Looks like a nice box. Pity it has no firmware on it.
It does not have POTS built in, so you'd have to generate that somehow. An old Adit 600 with a bunch of FXS cards and CMG router might do it on the cheap.