Incompetance abounds at the InterNIC

Ok, I thought I would stay out of this. It must be off topic.

"Pay-First" isn't a simple solution. I'll explain why.

First, what do speculators do? They register a domain and watch the news
for companies or products that might be able to use the domain. If they
find such a target company, they pay for the domain and try to sell it to
the target. If not, they let the payment slip. Perhaps in 30 days, they
re-register the domain if it still looks attractive.

Second, the current system evolved because of the requirements to reject
duplicates, and immediately notify the registrant about a duplicate and
allow registrations to go forward before "the check clears". Duplicates
might come in seconds after the first registation. Thing are done on the
"internet" time scale vs. the "telco" time scale.

Third, the idea that it only takes minutes or a few days to process a
payment is wrong. It takes up to eleven business days to clear a check. A
week to mail, and a week to process is not unreasonable, which quickly adds
up to about 30 days. Credit card payments can take 60 days to clear, since
they can be refuted when it appears on your bill.

So, with that in mind lets look at what it would take to implement the "pay
first" idea.

To make sure that payment is received, all registrations would have to wait
until the check cleared, or the credit card charge wasn't refuted. That
means you might wait 30 to 60 days for the registation. That would be
unacceptable. No one wants to wait until the check clears. Also note that
this restriction doesn't affect speculation at all. Speculators don't care
if the domain can't be registered for 30 days. They want 30 days to decide
whether to keep it or not. But what net user wants to wait 30 days for a
registration? Probably very few. Ok, so we rule that out.

Lets say we modify that a bit, and give the first registrant the domain
right away, and then if payment doesn't clear in 30 days, you revoke it.
The second registrant is notified immediately of a conflict. (You might
recognize this as the current system) This delay can be used by
speculators to speculate on useful domains. So we aren't quite happy with
this.

Lets modify this a bit further, and say we keep a queue of registrants. If
the first registrant doesn't pay, it goes to the second registrant. Now
the second registrant would have to wait 30 days to know whether they get
the domain or not. In that time, they probably would change their mind and
select a new name which can be registered right away. So they might not
want it in 30 days. The third registrant would have to wait 60 days.

Now NSI has the expensive logistical overhead of keeping track of this
queue for each registration. Have speculators been limited? No. Speculators
can still form chains of organizations to make multiple registrations of
the same domain. This would work very well unless someone got in the middle
of this chain. This is probably even better for speculators, since now
they can "reserve" a domain for as long as they want, merely be creating a
chain of companies to register the domain many times. Lawyers are good a
creating a chain of companies.

So, is it possible to have immediate notification of duplications,
registration before payment completes, and still reject speculation? It
doesn't appear so.

I'll go on record here that in my opinion, speculation is a unavoidable
"feature" of the system, which may be somewhat undesirable but one that
cannot be removed. The reason it cannot be removed is because of the delay
involved in completing the financial transaction, and the possibility that
such transactions can be terminated. We can't change the banking system to
prevent domainname speculation.

Further, there are legit activities the look very much like speculation. I
don't know how many of you have been involved with startups, but I have
advised a few. Its a very hectic time as the principals try to select and
register a name. Figure out trademark conflicts, etc. Often the business
idea, image, and focus change greatly during this initial period. They
typical register a dozen domains or more. Some are rejected. Others they
get. Once they select one that they got, they usually don't want the others.

My point is that there is a lot of legitimate "register, cancel-no pay"
activities. It is precisely these same activities that speculators use for
speculation.

While speculation may produce some additional load on NSI, there was also a
time when people only bought and sold stock with the intention of buying or
selling a company, rather than speculating about its future stock value. So
speculators produce tremendous load on stock exchanges. However, in doing
so, they now provide much of the capital to finance business.

I don't expect domain speculators to become the equivalent of stock
speculators, but they really aren't any different from speculators in land,
bonds, currency, grain, or anything else. They are part of the market
system. Speculators in other areas don't enjoy the gratitude of the
"regular users" of those areas either. Farmers generally hate land
speculators. But they realize they have to live with that.

So I think the solution is to build a system that scales well to millions
of transactions per day, regardless of the ultimate purpose for those
registrations. The per transaction cost becomes trivial, and the cost of
speculation is likewise minimized.

    --Dean

There is a key difference, and that is that stock speculators pay for the
right to speculate, so the system can afford to scale to meet the
increased volume. There is no such mechanism for the domain registration
system as it stands, so the costs of scaling are currently being born (or
suffered) by the rest of the customers.

This normally wouldn't be such a big issue. For example, we all pay a
little extra for costs a retail store incurs for shoplifting and returned
items. But those amount to a relatively insignificant increase in the
costs of goods. If 95% of a stores items were shoplifted or returned, you
can bet that the people buying at that store would either be very irate or
would go to another store, especially if they had to wait in line for 2
days instead of 20 minutes because there were 200 people in front of them
returning things. If the store wanted to be in the business of selling
things and not processing returns, they would figure out a way to either
prevent returns (better product, better help selecting a product, etc) or
make it less convenient to return a product (ie only in-store credit,
restocking fee, etc).

In the case of InterNIC, there is no other store, so we just get to be
irate. The fact is, as long as there is no penalty for just registering a
domain and then not paying for it, it is very likely that speculators will
abuse the system. It doesn't hurt them to do so. And the costs of domain
speculation will be born by the other users of InterNIC.

If InterNIC were to put any kind of deterrent into the system, that would
not punish normal users, but would prevent abuse, or at least allow the
abuse to pay for the costs of scaling the system, both normal users and
speculators would be happy.

This could be as simple as restricting how many domains (by company, or
contact ID, or whatever) could be registered for free before you have to
get special approval or pay a fee to register more, or it could be a
non-refundable fee that's paid for every registration request, whether you
keep the domain or not, or it could be a pay-in-advance arrangement, or
maybe you can only be extended $700 in InterNIC credit before you have to
bring your account current before registering any more domains.

One way that would be really simple is to put some restrictions on the
process for creating contacts, which would include at least some minimal
verification. That way, InterNIC could tie the domain registration to a
known contact, for purposes of tracking the account balance, number of
outstanding registrations, etc.

The bottom line is that InterNIC has to track requests, and place some
kinds of limitations on them, so the costs of increased use of their
system are born by those who are using it. This really isn't that
difficult. Probably 3 or 4 lines of Perl.

It would probably also help if there were some competition to InterNIC,
which would drive these "innovations" more quickly. What's the deal with
deregulating InterNIC, anyways? I thought that was supposed to happen last
March or so.

Pete.
http://pete.kruckenberg.com/resume

First, what do speculators do? They register a domain and watch the news

Screw the speculators - (simply put) - they are leaches - if they did not
register the domain in the first place then that company that they "watch
the news for" would simply register their own frikken domain and not be
gouged by them for their "finders fee".

Second, the current system evolved because of the requirements to reject
duplicates, and immediately notify the registrant about a duplicate and
allow registrations to go forward before "the check clears". Duplicates
might come in seconds after the first registation. Thing are done on the
"internet" time scale vs. the "telco" time scale.

You shot yourself in the foot here - if pay first is the method then the
first one that registered would have PAID FIRST.

Third, the idea that it only takes minutes or a few days to process a
payment is wrong. It takes up to eleven business days to clear a check. A
week to mail, and a week to process is not unreasonable, which quickly adds
up to about 30 days. Credit card payments can take 60 days to clear, since
they can be refuted when it appears on your bill.

Now you are getting ridiculous (surprise surprise) - you are arguing the
1% argument here - (here are some more straws in case you are running
short). First - I would only accept credit card payment from individuals
and then I would invoice accounts that can establish a line of credit (I
would assume those that register and HAVE PAID for a volume of domains -
the keys word there are HAVE PAID)

To make sure that payment is received, all registrations would have to wait
until the check cleared, or the credit card charge wasn't refuted. That
means you might wait 30 to 60 days for the registation. That would be
unacceptable. No one wants to wait until the check clears. Also note that
this restriction doesn't affect speculation at all. Speculators don't care
if the domain can't be registered for 30 days. They want 30 days to decide
whether to keep it or not. But what net user wants to wait 30 days for a
registration? Probably very few. Ok, so we rule that out.

<da-na-na-na ther is a signpost on the wall you have just entered...>

Dean - what, that you have paid for with your credit card, have you needed
to wait 30 days to obtain - netsols collection procedure is not an issue
here...

<remainder snipped - finally came too and realized who I was arguing
with...>

NetSol already maintains debit accounts for those people who choose to open
one.