I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it comes to IPv4?
We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way through a PAT system with STUN or other methods?
It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we still opening ports or having systems that don’t work?
This isn’t rocket science.
Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp, then they will have open NAT to play their game and host.
I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.
They're trying to give your salesmen an opportunity to upsell. "Oh you
have an Z-Console? Those need a gaming enhanced IP address which we'll
happily sell you for an extra $5/month. You have three Z-Consoles? At
the same time? We gotcha covered!"
Regards,
Bill Herrin
Not every game are made the same or use the same network engine.
Which games on PS4 are more problematic in your opinion?
Jean
Not every game are made the same or use the same network engine.
Which games on PS4 are more problematic in your opinion?
Jean
Call of duty is not a game, it’s a religion and you can’t compare this game to classic voip. If your voip is a bit degraded, you will have a delay of few milliseconds and/or weird background noise.
In Call of Duty, a few milliseconds delay means you are dead before even knowing it. Also, competitive ppl there like to DDoS your line just to win. This game is full of cheat and hack to make sure the players will win.
On another hand, you are probably already aware of the 3 NAT types in gaming.
Type 1 (Open): The system is directly connected to the Internet (no router or firewall), and you should have no problems connecting to other PS4 systems.
Type 2 (Moderate): The system is connected through a router properly, and generally you won’t have problems.
Type 3 (Strict): The system is connected through a router without open ports or DMZ setup, and you may have problems related with the connection or voice chat.
You can check your PS4 nat type in the network status.
If you have a Type 1 (Open) NAT you are sure that your game will connect easily with others.
What is your NAT type in your PS4?
Jean
Call of duty is not a game, it’s a religion and you can’t compare this game to classic voip. If your voip is a bit degraded, you will have a delay of few milliseconds and/or weird background noise.
In Call of Duty, a few milliseconds delay means you are dead before even knowing it. Also, competitive ppl there like to DDoS your line just to win. This game is full of cheat and hack to make sure the players will win.
On another hand, you are probably already aware of the 3 NAT types in gaming.
Type 1 (Open): The system is directly connected to the Internet (no router or firewall), and you should have no problems connecting to other PS4 systems.
Type 2 (Moderate): The system is connected through a router properly, and generally you won’t have problems.
Type 3 (Strict): The system is connected through a router without open ports or DMZ setup, and you may have problems related with the connection or voice chat.
You can check your PS4 nat type in the network status.
If you have a Type 1 (Open) NAT you are sure that your game will connect easily with others.
What is your NAT type in your PS4?
Jean
Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven’t kept up in that realm.
Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,
At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games I’ve played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp makes this worse, because when their algorithm probes to see what ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the “magical xbox port” to one box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on one at a time, things do work. But when upnp is off everything works w/o having to do that.
There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn’t cause problems for any recent device / gaming system.
It is true that I’ve yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that’s cuz they can’t count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and it wouldn’t be worth their while to have their gaming host support dual-stack. just a guess there
– Dan
Aren’t most of the major operators using IPv6?
There are many things going on with gaming that makes natted IPv4 an issue when it comes to consoles and gaming in general. When you break it down it makes sense.
-You have voice chat
-You are receiving data from servers about other people in the game
-You are sending data to servers about yourself
-If you are using certain features where you are “the host” then you are serving content from your gaming console. This is not much different than a customer running a web server. You can’t have more than one customer running a port 80 web-server behind nat.
-Streaming to services like Twitch or YouTube
All of these take up standard, agreed upon ports. It’s really only prevalent on gaming consoles because they are doing many functions. Look at it another way. You have a customer doing the following.
-Making a VOIP call
-Streaming a movie
-Running a web server
-Running bittorrent on a single port
-Having a camera folks need to access from the outside world
This is why platforms like Xbox developed things like Teredo.
Justin Wilson
j2sw@mtin.net
Why stray away from how PC games were 20 years ago where there was a dedicated server and clients just spoke to servers?
It is coming back to that, but you still have so much going on that you need the open ports. I don’t gt why people fight IPV6 so much.
Justin Wilson
j2sw@mtin.net
I’m still waiting for my ISP to turn on v6 so the consumers of my neighborhood ISP can get v6 service.
Going to poke them again today actually.
- Jared
Many... but not all... and just because the operator is doesn't mean the person you want to play with is. And just because the operator is doesn't mean the router you or the other person is using supports it.
Because it's not universally supported, poorly thought through, and no backwards compatibility.
Is there a better option? NO, not at this time. But it certainly could have been better thought through how it was implemented.
Are non-ISP-provided routers all that common anymore?
Aren’t there enough IPv6-enabled operators with critical mass of IPv6 deployments that IPv4-only networks can be treated like the second-tier citizens they are?
Yes
No.
What evidence is there that non-ISP-provided routers are prevalent? I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have an IT power-user intervening that has their own router. If something works without a separate router, most people aren’t going to go out of their way to get one.
https://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/
It does seem like there’s enough IPv6 use in the last mile networks where they don’t need the IPv4 users anymore.