Frontier Dark Fiber

I’m looking for a contact at Frontier that can discuss dark fiber.

My current account exec says they don’t offer it, yet prior conversations with him and a previous SE revealed that they very much did (just didn’t have availability on the paths I wanted at the time).

Their web site highlights it fairly proudly.

I’m aware that availability varies.

I’m aware that they likely don’t want to sell it.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that my ICA has it.

Your rights under the ICA are dead. Since 2002 you were only able to order it if one end was in a tier 3 wirecenter, and it was killed in 2021 as an orderable product.

There’s an 8 year transition for existing unbundled dark fiber (February 28, 2029). Dark fiber loops were dead in 2002 under the TRRO.

The ICA was signed in 2003 or 2004 with dark fiber in it.

Ahh, but maybe 2021 killed it.

Well, most of the ones I’m looking at would be interoffice, not so much loops.

Unless you are a significant sized regional operator in an area that overlaps with Frontier’s ILEC territory is it unlikely in the extreme that they would want to rent you some dark fiber or issue a quote for it.

Or some kind of very large enterprise customer that Frontier will take seriously like a Fortune 500 sized manufacturing entity.

Here’s the list of CLLI codes where you’re no longer able to order dark fiber:

It seems odd as I look through there, finding COs with no competitive fiber and yet, they’re on the list.

When working with ILECs it is important to differentiate what must be offered via ICAs and what is offered commercially. We for example sell a ton commercially but effectively none through our interconnection agreements anymore.

(we being Ziply Fiber in WA/OR/ID/MT)

I wouldn’t have thought that Frontier was able to offer dark fiber, since air distribution fan out is all GPON, is it not?

If their fanout was active ethernet it might be a different story but…

– jra

They have access to/control of a large amount of mid-mile and long-haul fiber built by/as GTE and Verizon. Additionally, while their resi/soho distribution is all PON, they do have some excess fiber fairly deep into their network in most markets and actively offer active-E service on it for the right price (it can even occasionally be competitive). I imagine they'd sell dark for the right price as well, though you may not like that "right" price.

Yeah, FU pricing ain't uncommon.

Thanks for the clarification.

-- jra

Any regional ILEC spanning at least a few counties in size will have some amount of inter-CO dark fiber, whether they want to sell it to any 3rd parties is entirely another question.

"I wouldn't have thought that Frontier was able to offer dark fiber loops to
end user customers at any kind of reasonable product-scale".

Sorry; didn't know I had to show my work here. :slight_smile:

-- jra

Yes; There was absolutely some outright fraud here. Fraud, that even when pointed out exactly to the FCC staffers handling this, was simply ignored. This fraud claims in the rural parts of mendocino county, where I have operated for 20 years, claims there is ‘competitive fiber’ within 500’ of some of the CO’s I would die to have fiber access in, and which has never ever been possible. The fscking game playing here is unbelievable. ATT, how far you have fallen…and taking down America with you.