Let me clarify things then. First he said he RBL'ed them "in the first 6
months of the RBL". Now they are RBL supporters. Then read the "makes no
effort" The so-called "effort" here is really just "cooperation" with Paul
Vixie.
I'm not the only one concerned about coercion by the RBL. I know I'm not
the only one concerned that the use of this coercion is capricious and
unpredictable, and changes depending on Paul's moods and own interests.
This was demonstrated quite clearly with the abandonment of rules to
essentially blackmail NetSol into cooperation.
The bottom line is that the RBL is a powerful hammer, and the person in
control is inclined to act capriciously without concern for anyone else or
even follow his own rules about their "permitted activities" as he
originally defined them in the pages on qualification for the RBL.
Thats an operational problem. I think we either need to take the hammer
away from Paul and give it to someone more even handed and fair about the
application of the rules, or stop using the hammer altogether. The latter
alternative is unlikely.
I have argued in the past that the RBL will not acheive its desired goals.
And I don't think it will, or has. But I don't deny it certainly does have
effective power to coerce and influence the industry. It can clearly move
big players like earthlink and others.
I can live by whatever rules as long as they are evenly applied to everyone
else. I can't live with a powerful instrument like the RBL which is
applied capriciously at Pauls apparent whim. I think others agree with this.
--Dean
Dean Anderson wrote:
I can't live with a powerful instrument like the RBL which is
applied capriciously at Pauls apparent whim. I think others agree with this.
H'mmmm
As far as I understand it, Paul created the RBL for himself, so he
didn't have to deal with all the crap that was sent to him. Then some of
us asked if we could use his list of sources of spam, so we could stop
the crap without having to duplicate his efforts (if we went through the
same effort, we wouldn't need to take his feed, now would we?). He
grudgingly agreed, as long as we acknowledged that this was precisely
what he was doing. Taking care of his mailbox, and grudgingly allowing
us to share his own personal data. At no charge. As a special favor.
Where do you end up talking about a tool to beat people over the head
being in the hands of someone who has wild mood swings.
All Paul is doing is making use of his right to make personal decisions.
The fact that a third of the Internet (or whatever the number) happens
to want to use Paul's data, provided as a favor, has nothing to do with
anyone else in the world getting involved in his process. It's his.
I doubt Paul asked you to use it. So don't.
Anyone else who has a problem should do the same.
The byproducts of his list are not a requirement of his. Merely a
byproduct. Cause and effect. A bonus. But definitely not a requirement.
/rlj
Hey ya know - not for nothing here - but Paul's "whim" has proven to be a
hell of a lot more "even-handed" then most ppl's meditated thought - but
lets put it plainly - not many of us want to hear this anymore on this
list - Jared has provided a haven for this type of rant Dean - do us all a
favor and have your tirade there...
<snip>
Thats an operational problem. I think we either need to take the hammer
away from Paul and give it to someone more even handed and fair about the
application of the rules, or stop using the hammer altogether. The latter
alternative is unlikely.
<snip>
First off, this doesn't belong here, it belongs on the rbl-discussion
mailing list, created specifically for this purpose, but...
Thats an operational problem. I think we either need to take the hammer
away from Paul and give it to someone more even handed and fair about the
application of the rules, or stop using the hammer altogether. The latter
alternative is unlikely.
You can have fun trying to take the hammer from Paul's hands. Just make
sure you give me some notice so I can pack up some beer and chips and get
ready to watch the show. The RBL is Paul's. Not yours, not mine, not the
net's in general, and certainly not the government's. If he wants to make
a list of mail-servers he doesn't like, that's his business. It's my
business if I choose to use it. If I'm on it? Too bad. He doesn't like me,
and he has every right to make a list of people he doesn't like.
Luckily, Paul uses more logical methods of determining membership in the
RBL Club. 
I begin to think you're being _wilfully perverse_ in your
misunderstandings of things people state clearly.
First-off, I thought there was an RBL-discuss list ....
The bottom line is that the RBL is a powerful hammer, and the person in
control is inclined to act capriciously without concern for anyone else or
even follow his own rules about their "permitted activities" as he
originally defined them in the pages on qualification for the RBL.
Next, if you want to set up a competing RBL registry then knock yourself
out. Bring it up, politicize it the way you think it's right, and convince
others to use it. If its any good, I don't think Paul would cry alot over
it. Maybe, he'd breath a sigh of relief. I'm fairly sure he doesn't really
want the job, just filling a gap/need. Convince Paul that you'd do as good
a job as he does and he might even be your first customer.
Take it to the rbl-discussion list, Dean.
- -
James D. Wilson
"non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem"
William of Ockham (1285-1347/49)
- -----Original Message-----
If it is an effective power to move big players, it would seem that it has
been at least moderately successful in acheiving its' desired goals.
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