Fire Code/UFC Regs?

OK this is only probably marginally operational. Yesterday we were inspected (quite thoroughly I might add.....) by the city fire inspector for Missoula, MT....Now we did have a couple of things I know need fixing, an emergency light with a dead battery upstairs, I'm using a long orange extension cord w/o a breaker on it for my monitor at my desk. And one incidence where we had some piggy-backing going on.

Now what I'm asking is this: we were told that you can NOT plug in breaker protected six outlet strips into battery backup units such as APCs, and we were (or are) being written up for that. My understanding is that most/all (atleast APC units) are properly de-rated (per UFC) and you *can* plug in additional breaker protected extension cords into these units.

The problem is if this is not the case we'll be having to put a LOT more BBUs out into our office for workstations than what we planned. I've also never seen this cited as a problem but I could just be ignorant too.

Please reply off-list. Sorry if anyone feels like this is a waste of time, but if there is interest I will summarize on list.

If this really is true then I can see a lot of places breaking this fire code even here locally. I'm not sure what part of the code it is but he's stated that if I can get him some form of documentation from teh manufacturer or something then he can make a deviation. With a 2200VA unit only having 4-6 outlets on it I can't see *not* using additional power strip off the back of it.

Thanks guys, back to the regular NANOG channel...

Here's what APC has to say about it:

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=jTAq9iAh&p_lva=&p_faqid=1372&p_created=1010390400&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM4NyZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXN1cmdlIGludG8gVVBTJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMT1_YW55fiZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMj1_YW55fiZwX3BhZ2U9Mg**&p_li=

Sorry about the wrap...

Basically, they say not to plug surge strips into the output of a UPS.
You should use PDU's instead.

Josh

Josh Vince wrote:

Here's what APC has to say about it:

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=jTAq9iAh&p_lva=&p_faqid=1372&p_created=1010390400&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM4NyZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXN1cmdlIGludG8gVVBTJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMT1_YW55fiZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMj1_YW55fiZwX3BhZ2U9Mg**&p_li=

Sorry about the wrap...

Basically, they say not to plug surge strips into the output of a UPS.
You should use PDU's instead.

Josh

Summary I read:

PowerStrips/Surge protectors are junky things which dont distribute voltage/amperage equaly, so you should not use them with a UPS.

1) How does this stated/assumed condition become more relevant for a UPS than for any other use?

2) I highly doubt that such a blanket assumption can be made about the literally thousands of branded surge protecters and power strips.

3) They admit that they are talking out of their a** when they say this does not affect the warranty.

4) Since the odds are fairly strong that any device that draws 15-20 Amps * 110 volts in wattage will cause (most) batteries to go overload, I see no specific reason to be concerned that other devices on the strip may not get enough juice. In short, that would be the least of my problems.

5) Having surge protectors IS good. Now any device that overloads/makes the circtuit too warm shuts itself off. Everything else on the battery hums along merrily. Just like my kids flipping the AC on and off repeatedly.....surge cuts it off and my computer continues merrily on. How does the battery deal with equipment that tries to draw surges of power.

I dont see anything valid there. But more to the point I dont see anything that would explain it being against regs.

Perhaps someone who knows EE can enlighten me?

Joe

Perhaps someone who knows EE can enlighten me?

Joe

OK - my considered opinion as a BSEE is:

It's a pile of BS designed to sell PDU's.

"but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some
equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run
properly"

Yeah. Sure.

Mark Radabaugh

Here's what APC has to say about it:

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=jTAq9iAh&p_lva=&p_faqid=1372&p_created=1010390400&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTM4NyZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PXN1cmdlIGludG8gVVBTJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMT1_YW55fiZwX3Byb2RfbHZsMj1_YW55fiZwX3BhZ2U9Mg**&p_li=

Sorry about the wrap...

Basically, they say not to plug surge strips into the output of a UPS.
You should use PDU's instead.

Or, more basically: Buy APC's power strips, because we think we engineered them correctly, and think nobody else possibly could design a decent power strip.

Here's a URL showing some of their rack mounted PDU products

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=30

While I like APC products, I have to wonder whether this "requirement" for using only "PDU" products was written by their lawyers to cover liability concerns when someone uses a low-quality power strip, and/or their marketing folks to push their own power strips.

I asked an EE friend, he says it sounds like a convenient excuse for APC
to reject claims.

-Dan

Surge protection using military style passive line filters will reduce
an already attenuated trapezoidal wave by absorbing higher frequency
components. MOVs should not be a problem, as outputs will be lower than
peaks with a sine-wave. Some equipment may not run well at the possible
lower voltages.

-Doug