Exchanges that matter...

> Would someone be so kind as to email me a list of the Exchanges that
> matter? I.E., which ones qualify when calculating your connections for
> peering?
>
> Is it just the 4 NAP's and MAE-East and MAE-West?

I thought of answering this but I decide that followups to other folks
replies would probably be more useful to the gallery. I was right:

Ameritech NAP
Atlanta NAP :slight_smile:
MAE-East
MAE-West
PACBell NAP
Sprint NAP

In terms of meeting peering requirements, the above list is sufficient
except that the ":-)" has to be read as "just kidding".

Unfortunately for my ulcer, more was said:

CIX may be worth connecting to as a sales thing, and PAIX is not worth
connecting to yet because there are so many NAPs in that area.

Connecting to CIX won't help your sales. It does help your connectivity if
you aren't otherwise able to buy T3 lines to everywhere in the universe, and
it's a fine backup for folks who _can_ afford T3 lines to all of known space.

PAIX is the best NAP-like object in the Bay Area, in my biased view (I'm a
consultant to Digital so the bias is strong). They have better facilities
than MAE-W and they aren't subject to ATM's cell tax and PUC vagueries the
way Pac Bell's is. The only thing they don't have is a lot of people to
peer with, which is a good reason _but_the_only_reason_ why they are not in
first place on the west coast.

The higher quality of the facilities and remote hands at PAIX ought to lead
most newcomers to the Bay Area to locate their POP in Palo Alto and run a
T3 line to MAE-W or PB-NAP or both. The remote hands people at PAIX are
not knuckle dragging frame techs, they are senior-sysadmin-quality
technical people who you would be lucky to be able to hire full time if
they were available. This makes a huge difference when you want to know
WHICH red light is blinking.

On the other hand the original question was about what you need to connect
to in order to meet Sprint's or AGIS' peering requirements, and the original
answer (a) was correct and (b) did not list DEC PAIX. Therefore I'm really
not trying to change the answer, I'm answering an entirely different question.

> Also, do any of you have any comments on whether peering standards might
> be relaxed if you are setting up a statewide educational network?

Hmm, possible, but don't count on it. If I were you, I would get connected
to the NAPs ASAP because it will get harder and harder to peer with the
big guys as times moves on.

The big guys are already yanking existing peering sessions down when they
change their requirements. Getting in early has done nobody any good so far.

We're seeing bifurcation into little guys and big guys. It remains to be seen
which end of the strata will have the larger total number of endpoints. If
it's the big guys, they will squeeze the little guys no matter how many of
the little guys band together. If the little guys own more endpoints then
some kind of collective bargaining will be possible. My hope rests on this
possibility but please don't bet your money on it.

> Ameritech NAP
> Atlanta NAP :slight_smile:
> MAE-East
> MAE-West
> PACBell NAP
> Sprint NAP

In terms of meeting peering requirements, the above list is sufficient
except that the ":-)" has to be read as "just kidding".

Yes, for now.

Unfortunately for my ulcer, more was said:

Sorry.

> CIX may be worth connecting to as a sales thing, and PAIX is not worth
> connecting to yet because there are so many NAPs in that area.

Connecting to CIX won't help your sales. It does help your connectivity if
you aren't otherwise able to buy T3 lines to everywhere in the universe, and
it's a fine backup for folks who _can_ afford T3 lines to all of known space.

Well it sure will if you are going after gov contracts. I have have bid on
several that you had to be connected to CIX in order to bid.

PAIX is the best NAP-like object in the Bay Area, in my biased view (I'm a
consultant to Digital so the bias is strong). They have better facilities
than MAE-W and they aren't subject to ATM's cell tax and PUC vagueries the

Yes, 100%

way Pac Bell's is. The only thing they don't have is a lot of people to
peer with, which is a good reason _but_the_only_reason_ why they are not in
first place on the west coast.

Yes, true, it would be great of MAE-West of PACBell just moved to PAIX,
but I don't think it is worth adding a view when you have established NAPs
in the area. I learned this when I when I was building Atlanta-NAP I
wanted to build a place better then PAIX (and they did the best job so
far), but I found out that people don't care. If I build a NAP that was
100 times nicer then MAE-East (and that would not be hard at all) people
would not just move.

The higher quality of the facilities and remote hands at PAIX ought to lead
most newcomers to the Bay Area to locate their POP in Palo Alto and run a
T3 line to MAE-W or PB-NAP or both. The remote hands people at PAIX are

Yep, that is what we did until our POP is built.

not knuckle dragging frame techs, they are senior-sysadmin-quality
technical people who you would be lucky to be able to hire full time if
they were available. This makes a huge difference when you want to know
WHICH red light is blinking.

On the other hand the original question was about what you need to connect
to in order to meet Sprint's or AGIS' peering requirements, and the original
answer (a) was correct and (b) did not list DEC PAIX. Therefore I'm really
not trying to change the answer, I'm answering an entirely different question.

Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today!

Could you expand on this a bit please? For instance, how do you define
"endpoint"?

Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com

So is there a better solution for someone that doesn't actually want a POP
there now? If PAIX is the smartest connection facilities wise, that is
where we want to be. Are 2 DS-3 connections per router allowed at PAIX?
That would be the best solution -- cohab a router at PAIX, DS-3 back to
our core and DS-3 up to Pacbell.

What am I missing?

Just that you'll have to eat extra circuit costs. While PAIX is a nicer,
newer and cleaner facility than what MFS has in San Jose for MAE-West; I
don't recall too many failures or complaints about the quality of that
facility. Ask BBN where their SJ POP is located.

Since I don't think this list has turned into 'network-engineering' I'll
stay away from the P*B NAP vs. MAE-West point. :wink:

-jh-

Is there one? :wink:

Asking people to relocate their high-bandwidth peering point
connections is not likely to be successful unless you give them a
cheap, easy way to do it. Using the MAE-east/Atlanta-NAP example, why
would people pay thousands more dollars per month to backhaul traffic
to Atlanta when they can exchange it locally? It just doesn't make
sense, and really defeats the purpose of having a local exchange
point. Sure, the number of hops would be the same, but if a packet
has to move between two DC-area providers, it makes little sense for
it to travel down the east coast and back up again.

But the biggest reason that people will not move their peering point
connections from one place to another is that it will break things.
Also, it will be a huge pain in the ass. If things are functioning
reasonably well, there is little point in moving everything around.

Alec