Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on
shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of
gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize
cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are
there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance
for the help.
Thanks again,
Matt
FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me.
You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk.
That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your
spot to their pickup and back again on the other side.
Rail is not an option because it is across country.
Ground/Highway is not an option because it is across country.
Your only choice is by air.
Use FedEx. Life is short.
-Richard
Matthew Zito wrote:
FedEx, or Forward Air.
FedEx - Door-to-door, reliable, easy to do business with.
Forward Air - Terminal to terminal. You deliver it to their facility near
an airport, they deliver it to a terminal near the destination airport.
This means that you need guys and a truck at both ends. A bit more trouble
than FedEx to do business with. You'll typically need to palletize your
gear.
We've shipped (using Fedex International Freight) 300+lb pallets of Sun gear
without any untoward delays or problems. Multiple times. The pricing was
excellent and the service (once they knew freight was involved) was fine.
I think bad experiences with fedex have more to do with the statistical
probability of a problem occurring over x million deliveries rather than a
problem with the vendor itself.
Deepak Jain
AiNET
We recently (beginning of July) acquired a small hosting company (about 100 servers) based in New Jersey. This was a very short-notice, literally overnight move of many servers, and customers, from New Jersey to the west coast.
We used Airborne Express <http://www.airborne.com> to overnight ship the "minimal downtime" machines... with the exception of their mail server, which we brought as luggage on our return flight.
All the stuff arrived the next day, on-time, and about 99% intact, as one server on the overnight stuff was DOA.
We picked Airborne specifically for their price... they were the lowest bid we received for an overnight, Saturday-delivery shipper. They performed as advertised.
The 'non-critical" equipment (racks, cabinets, spare servers, etc.) were shipped ground, and unlike the overnight, it was beat to hell. Go figure.
I have used Federal Express to great effect in the past. I have tended
to stay away from Airborne because the local people here in Dallas
didn't know not to turn printers full of toner on their sides. Since
Airborne packed them, I felt they should not have been full of toner,
but that is another story!
Chris
Matthew Zito wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> <snip>
I've had good luck shipping ~600 lbs of gear next day with Eagle Global Logistics. (http://www.eagleusa.com) It was fairly reasonably priced, too.
HTH,
Gabriel
Thanks to everyone for all of the responses. I got in touch with a number
of companies - the two big common sticking points seem to be insuring
shipments of greater than 50k value and the SLAs on their freight delivery.
Overall (price vs. SLA vs. convenience), FedEx won, though they max out at
50k insurance per shipment. ForwardAir was the nicest and most helpful, but
they charge $1 per $100 of shipped value and they have very rigid packing
requirements for high-value shipments (plus a 4-day delivery timeframe).
Airborne Express was notable for their willingness to insure well above the
50k max per shipment, though they require advance notice.
Thanks again,
Matt
"N. Richard Solis" <nrsolis@aol.net> writes:
FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me.
FedEx Heavy = "pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120
pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or
other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the
truck". My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507
and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back
when I was at AboveNet: Why you shouldn't use Fedex for large objects
You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk.
That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your
spot to their pickup and back again on the other side.
Counter-to-counter is the *last* way you would want to ship that sort
of thing (handled as luggage on a flight, beat to hell by baggage
handlers, and you get to retrieve it from baggage claim in an airport
and schlep it all the way to your car). Far better (if you have
access to trucks on both ends) is to ship it air freight. As you
enter your favorite airport, follow the signs to Air Cargo, not the
signs to the passenger terminal. When you find a place with a lot of
places for 18-wheelers to back up to loading docks, and relatively few
places for cars to park, you've found the right place. Matthew
doesn't mention specific terminus points for the shipment, but based
on whois information I'll make a wild guess that NYC is one end. JFK
appears to be the "big" United installation (vs LGA and EWR), per info
on www.unitedcargo.com - I tend to prefer them because of their long
hours for pickup and delivery at IAD, which makes life convenient for
me. 
If you need door-to-door service, there are numerous air freight
forwarders who can handle palletized equipment and move it around the
country/world in a timely fashion (and really, if you're talking about
300+ pounds of rackmount equipment, that's how you want to move it
anyway).
Two companies that I've used and been quite happy with the results are
Cavalier International and Eagle Global Logistics. You may recognize
Eagle's logo from stickers on previous shipments that you've gotten
from major manufacturers who have stuff manufactured in the Far East.
The Pros Know.
http://www.eaglegl.com/
http://www.cavalier-intl.com/
---Rob
A counter-to-counter shipment on a passenger airline is a thing of the
past (at least from my experiences going directly to the passenger
airlines). After Sept 11 the FAA has required that passenger airlines
only accept shipments from "known shippers" (unless this has changed in
the last 14 months). What does this mean? You need to setup an
account with the airline (may of them will setup the account and still
be able to bill to a credit card). You also need to become a "known
shipper" by having their courier/employee visit your location and
verify that you are a "known shipper". Once this occurs you can do
passenger airline counter-to-counter shipments at will. Setup time
takes 7-10 days from what I remember.
If anybody has counter-to-counter on their disaster recovery plans you
may want to get setup as a "known shipper". I went through the process
with United's Cargo division http://www.unitedcargo.com. I used them
as a backup to America West Airlines as I am located in Phoenix, AZ.
-Andy
Excellent points; didn't cross my mind since I've had (personal)
accounts with Delta and United for ages now. Probably a call to
ForwardAir, Cavalier, or EGL would get you their rules of engagement
too.
You might want to try http://www.khcargo.com/ for non-passenger air cargo.
---Rob
Andy Ellifson <andy@ellifson.com> writes:
That's it Rob, let it all out. 
I can certainly empathize, as I have
have my bad experiences with Fedex as well. We also use Emery on a
regular basis for the big things also. The bottom line is, like vendors,
all shippers can suck at times...it really is luck of the draw if some
guy along the line decides that he is going to not care about your gear
at some point while he is handling it. Accidents happen as well...
C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most
effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the
sender's part.
andy
Andy Walden <andy@tigerteam.net> writes:
That's it Rob, let it all out.
I can certainly empathize, as I have
have my bad experiences with Fedex as well. We also use Emery on a
regular basis for the big things also. The bottom line is, like vendors,
all shippers can suck at times...it really is luck of the draw if some
guy along the line decides that he is going to not care about your gear
at some point while he is handling it. Accidents happen as well...
Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by
using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to
move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough
that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise.
C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most
effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the
sender's part.
Do you really mean counter to counter, or do you mean Real Air Freight
(like going to the United Air Cargo facility behind Gate Gourmet in
the same strip as FedEx out at IAD)? Real Air Freight (tm) rocks my
world. Going into the terminal to baggage claim and trying to find
someone to help you find your package is annoying.
---Rob
I'm not sure if any of them are here, or if they would make their
info known...but I'm sure vendors have some good data. I know
Cisco's online ordering tool has about a bazillion (and yes, that's
the right term) shippers, and I'm sure they track the number of
problems reported. No doubt other vendors do as well.
Anyone friends with someone in the logistics department at a big
hardware vendor care to comment? 
Andy Walden <andy@tigerteam.net> writes:
Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by
using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to
move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough
that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise.
I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will
execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, for
the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at
generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that
individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day.
> C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most
> effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the
> sender's part.Do you really mean counter to counter, or do you mean Real Air Freight
(like going to the United Air Cargo facility behind Gate Gourmet in
the same strip as FedEx out at IAD)? Real Air Freight (tm) rocks my
world. Going into the terminal to baggage claim and trying to find
someone to help you find your package is annoying.
Granted, it's been awhile since I have shipped counter to counter since I
joined the dark side (vendor side), it probably was before 9/11, and
things may be different now. Please forgive any outdated experiences
represented.
andy
I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds
of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than
mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo
carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet
off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their
respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other
factors have been equalized.
Fedex != Fedex Freight
I have had fedex "heavyweight" boxes trashed, but have never had an
issue with Fedex Freight. They show up with a liftgate or box truck,
and a pallet jack. If your load is not palletized, they put it on
one in the truck.
I think Fedex Freight is a bit more in the "heavy moving" industry
than Fedex, agreed.
bill
ps. Is this operational?
> Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by
> using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to
> move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough
> that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise.I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will
execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, for
So your position is that the the existence of exceptions defines the
probability and severity of damage? That 1% and 40% damage rates are
in fact the same? $10 and $10,000?
the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at
generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that
individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day.
I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds
of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than
mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo
carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet
off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their
respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other
factors have been equalized.
Cargo/freight carriers, in general, are also aware that nearly all their
cargo is of declared value, that the fragility warnings are more likely
correct, and, perhaps most important, that the customers are far more
likely to be filing damage claims against them. Fedex, et al, know that
most of THEIR packages are paper and other sturdy items, and that their
customers are much less likely to notice/claim damages.
It's somewhat like card counting in blackjack. The odds are still quite
poor, but that n% shift can make the difference of coming out of the casino
money ahead or behind.
Of course, good packing is critical either way. If you're going freight,
palletize the items with proper/extra padding/packing material, stick some
damage (shock and tipping) indicators on each side, and tuck an INSPECTION
CHECKLIST for whomever is on the receiving end (not they won't have their
own copy, just sends a sign to anyone handling it that someone's going to
look when it arrives). If you're still determined to use a shipper, pack
and pad it well, then pack that box into another padded/packed box.
If you're desperate to get it moved ASAP, see if you can find a college
intern you can pay to drive it. You'll want your own people to load it
in and out of the car/van, but it'll be cheap and probably less risky than
relying on the odds with a shipper.
Certainly, with 4.7 BILLION in revnue last quarter
(http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030805/55780_1.html), they must have significant
relationships with specific shippers to generate real data. The only
objection I can think of is if you are a shipper doing *that much*
business with a single company, how much extra care are you going to give
boxes with some guy connecting a circuit on the front of them? How much
care are you going to give everyone else? It still comes down to human
nature and the luck of thd draw unless you are a major part of the
shippers revenues and this has been driven into your head?
andy
I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on
shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of
gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize
cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days.
Are
there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance
for the help.Thanks again,
Matt
This probably is too small of a load for this but we have had good luck
moving high value industrial control panels using the special cargo division
of carriers like United Van Lines
(http://www.unitedvanlines.com/spec/highvalue.htm?gid=9). Basically
standard household moving trucks with crews dedicated to moving high value
electronics, exhibits, art, etc. around the country. With a 2 person crew
in the truck you can go a hell of a long ways in 2 days though the cost may
not be exactly pretty.
Mark Radabaugh
Amplex
(419) 720-3635
> > Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by
> > using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to
> > move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough
> > that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise.
>
> I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will
> execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, forSo your position is that the the existence of exceptions defines the
probability and severity of damage? That 1% and 40% damage rates are
in fact the same? $10 and $10,000?
Just out of curiosity, What makes them "less likely"? I still think anyone
driving a pallet for a living (or running a network for that matter;)
could have very well had a binger the night before and still feeling the
effects.
> the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at
> generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that
> individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day.I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds
of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than
mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo
carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet
off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their
respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other
factors have been equalized.Cargo/freight carriers, in general, are also aware that nearly all their
cargo is of declared value, that the fragility warnings are more likely
correct, and, perhaps most important, that the customers are far more
likely to be filing damage claims against them. Fedex, et al, know that
most of THEIR packages are paper and other sturdy items, and that their
customers are much less likely to notice/claim damages.
What insight do you have into each shipper's package types and the
insurance liability?
It's somewhat like card counting in blackjack. The odds are still quite
poor, but that n% shift can make the difference of coming out of the casino
money ahead or behind.
Maybe, but make sure you are correct when you place you bet.
Of course, good packing is critical either way. If you're going freight,
palletize the items with proper/extra padding/packing material, stick some
damage (shock and tipping) indicators on each side, and tuck an INSPECTION
CHECKLIST for whomever is on the receiving end (not they won't have their
own copy, just sends a sign to anyone handling it that someone's going to
look when it arrives). If you're still determined to use a shipper, pack
and pad it well, then pack that box into another padded/packed box.If you're desperate to get it moved ASAP, see if you can find a college
intern you can pay to drive it. You'll want your own people to load it
in and out of the car/van, but it'll be cheap and probably less risky than
relying on the odds with a shipper.
100% agreed. We are talking about bringing the entire process under your
control in this case. Not always an option, but it certainly let's us feel
better if the option is available. Unfortunately, in the real world, this
isn't always an option.
andy