Class "B" forsale (fwd)

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1

This entire discussion reminds me of the way they do business on the
streets of New York City when it comes to vendors. It is ILLEGAL to
sell a vending license in the city of new york. That, however, does
not prevent some enterprising individuals from selling the use of
carts to vend goods along with a free license thrown in.

It also does not prevent someone from selling not an IP address block,
but selling ownership of a company that happens to own an IP address
block. The geometric possibilities alone are astounding.....

-dave
netreach

2

Yes, but the new company must justify the space to the nic.

Nathan Stratton President, NetRail,Inc.

3

Why? Is there a signed contract tht says I must return unwanted/unused space
to the nic? If so lets go recollect all those IPs being wasted by Frito-Lay,
MIT, and countless other orignizations that got their space before anyone
had to justify needs for IP space.

Face it, all the nic is, is a 'globally' (not totally true but good enough
for our purposes) storage facility that allocates its resources on a first
come, as needed basis. If I have a stockpile of typing paper that I'm
willing to sell because I don't need it should I sent it back to the
wharehouse or should I sell it to the guy next door who's willing to give me
10 bucks per carton?

You are assuming that the nic/ARIN is the end all be all of IP space, and
thats just not true. I could for example go to IANA and request space (no
doubt they would turn me down unless I had a damn good reason) if I wanted
to, one does _NOT_ have to go through the Nic/ARIN.

[-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-]
[-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-]
[-] 713-467-7100 [-]

4

Why? Is there a signed contract tht says I must return
unwanted/unused space to the nic?

No, but by the same token, you do not own your IP addresses, you
simply have the right to use them. You never signed anything that
said you _do_ have unlimited rights to them, so by your logic the NIC
(or IANA) is completely within its rights to take away said IP address
and re-assign them to somebody who will actually use them.

Face it, all the nic is, is a 'globally' (not totally true but good
enough for our purposes) storage facility that allocates its
resources on a first come, as needed basis. If I have a stockpile of
typing paper that I'm willing to sell because I don't need it should
I sent it back to the wharehouse or should I sell it to the guy next
door who's willing to give me 10 bucks per carton?

Paper is a renewable resource; IP addresses are _definitely_ not in
this category.

You are assuming that the nic/ARIN is the end all be all of IP
space, and thats just not true. I could for example go to IANA and
request space (no doubt they would turn me down unless I had a damn
good reason) if I wanted to, one does _NOT_ have to go through the
Nic/ARIN.

Granted the InterNIC is not the end all and be all of IP address
allocation, but the point is that _somebody_ is almost certainly going
to have something to say about the auctioning of IP addresses.

Alec

5

No, but by the same token, you do not own your IP addresses, you
simply have the right to use them. You never signed anything that
said you _do_ have unlimited rights to them, so by your logic the NIC
(or IANA) is completely within its rights to take away said IP address
and re-assign them to somebody who will actually use them.

Ok, I'm leasing it, consider my 'sale' of such as sublease, if I'm paying
money for it (which indeed I am with ARIN) then I certainly have some
rights. Add to which (and god how I hate sounding like flemming or denniger
here but..) who voted them to be the end all be all of IP allocations? I
could, if I so desired, right now, pull 223.223.0.0 out of my ass and start
routing it, and the nic/arin/IANA couldn't do squat about it. Core router
operators could, but thats a whole different discussion.

Paper is a renewable resource; IP addresses are _definitely_ not in
this category.

BUt you just said they were via recylcin unused space, so which is it?

Granted the InterNIC is not the end all and be all of IP address
allocation, but the point is that _somebody_ is almost certainly going
to have something to say about the auctioning of IP addresses.

Oh, I don't doubt for a moment they'll have something to say about it, I'm
just debating on if their comments will be of any value as such. Its no less
than what they're doing (though they do provide some halfassed database
management to kee the records straight) but they're
selling/leasing/auctioning space as welll, even if it is under the guise of
our own best interests.

[-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-]
[-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-]
[-] 713-467-7100 [-]

6

This is really more appropriate on NAIPR, so replies are directed
there...

Ok, I'm leasing it, consider my 'sale' of such as sublease, if I'm
paying money for it (which indeed I am with ARIN) then I certainly
have some rights.

No, that is _not_ what paying ARIN gives you rights to. All you pay
ARIN for is the registration service, not for the addresses themselves
(be it a lease or a sale).

Add to which (and god how I hate sounding like flemming or denniger
here but..) who voted them to be the end all be all of IP
allocations?

Please don't go there, that's a whole can of worms that has already
been discussed many times.

I could, if I so desired, right now, pull
223.223.0.0 out of my ass and start routing it, and the
nic/arin/IANA couldn't do squat about it. Core router operators
could, but thats a whole different discussion.

There is nothing they can _directly_ do about it, however there is a
substantial amount that they can do indirectly. At any rate, this is
not relavent in the sale of IP addresses (which is the discussion at
hand).

BUt you just said they were via recylcin unused space, so which is
it?

There is a big difference between a 'recycable' resource and a
'renewable' one.

Oh, I don't doubt for a moment they'll have something to say about
it, I'm just debating on if their comments will be of any value as
such.

History has shown that they will be.

Its no less than what they're doing (though they do provide
some halfassed database management to kee the records straight) but
they're selling/leasing/auctioning space as welll, even if it is
under the guise of our own best interests.

Look, this has all been gone over many times, and really is not all
that relavent to the discussion at hand. The point is that it is one
cannot very well sell something that one does not own. Well, said
person can try to sell it, but the person who buys it might end up
being disappointed when he/she cannot justify the space to the
InterNIC/ARIN and has it revoked.

Alec