http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/175172.html
Leaders of the nation's largest corporations are designing a new
communications network that would alert them immediately to a terrorist
attack and enable them to instantly talk with one another and government
officials about how to respond.
Interesting idea. It would be nice if ISPs also had a way to
instantly talk with one another.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/infrastructure/comments/Donelan.htm
<deletia>
Interesting idea. It would be nice if ISPs also had a way to
instantly talk with one another.
I thought that was NANOG 
Sean Donelan wrote:
Interesting idea. It would be nice if ISPs also had a way to
instantly talk with one another.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/infrastructure/comments/Donelan.htm
Once upon a time, kc had a MOO -- we used to hang out there and discuss
things in real time....
Indeed. Once upon a time... one wonders why that is no longer the case. It
isn't as if a MOO (or any other flavor of favorite server) takes up much.
Is nobody offering, or is nobody using what's offered?
If it's just a matter of nobody offering, after all, even I can fix that...
Or just put up an IRC server, as long as you don't link it to EFNet noone
will packet it. 
If thats too much trouble, try an AIM chat room. I don't think its worth
making a whole mud over (no offense to MOO :P).
> Once upon a time, kc had a MOO -- we used to hang out there and discuss
> things in real time....Indeed. Once upon a time... one wonders why that is no longer the case. It
isn't as if a MOO (or any other flavor of favorite server) takes up much.
Is nobody offering, or is nobody using what's offered?If it's just a matter of nobody offering, after all, even I can fix that...
I've actually had the MOO software compiled installed for a while, just
haven't gotten around to had the time to play with it...If anyone wants
to tell me how to set it up/secure it, i'll be glad to leave it there...
Jeff
It's still there, but doesn't see much activity these days.
Steve
:http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/175172.html
: Leaders of the nation's largest corporations are designing a new
: communications network that would alert them immediately to a terrorist
: attack and enable them to instantly talk with one another and government
: officials about how to respond.
I get threat updates a few times a day from various sources as a part of
my job, and what I have noticed is that the most valuble updates are the
ones where someone has put a few hours worth of analysis into them.
From this article, the value of this service is a central point of
co-ordination, not unlike CERT, FIRST or (I think) the NIPC at the FBI.
Nanog is actually a pretty effective forum for these issues as, it
is an ongoing way of maintaining connections between decision makers
and subject matter experts.
:Interesting idea. It would be nice if ISPs also had a way to
:instantly talk with one another.
:http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/infrastructure/comments/Donelan.htm
What if someone were to offer one of those CNN satellite video terminals
at a reasonable rate with a package including a sat/cell phone, conference
bridge numbers, with alternates and backups etc..?
The service would have to be offered by someone with the credibility to
assess threats, and be able to co-ordinate response once subscribers
started calling in. It is one thing to get people on the phone, it
is another to co-ordinate emergency management strategy with people
who are busy, don't have security expertise, and may not have been
briefed on the complexity of the situation.
Personally, I think the NIPC is probably the only group with the mandate
and access to expertise neccesary for something like this for the ISP
and telcom world, outside the industries themselves.
Could a service like this could sustain itself profitably?
Could a private industry consortium have broad enough influence to
be effective?
This is a complicated issue. Maybe I'm off base, but Nanog is actually
really good. Combined with Bugtraq, Incidents, and a virus alert service,
Nanog plays a vital role. Their only limitation is that they are on the
Internet.
Yep, IPNMOO is still around, and some people use it. NANOG is
the closest thing we have to a "all-hands" channel, but lots of
people don't like the signal to noise ratio. I have my nocwire
list, but its mostly just interesting things sean saw on the net.
Individual engineers use IRC, AIM, etc to communicate with people
they know.
Its informal, but so far it has served us well.
Also sprach Sean Donelan
This is a complicated issue. Maybe I'm off base, but Nanog is actually
really good. Combined with Bugtraq, Incidents, and a virus alert service,
Nanog plays a vital role. Their only limitation is that they are on the
Internet.
Exactly! That's why we need control plane separation.
Run SNMP, SSH, telnet, and SNTP (Simple NANOG Transport Protocol)
across the management network, so we're sure we have them when we need
them.
Actually, NANOG does great. Especially during Sept 11, information
was disseminated, help was offered and accepted, and except for a
couple of idiotic flames, the SNR was high. ARPA designed the thing
to withstand nuclear blasts, and while this was not nuclear, it stood
up well.
ericb
If NANOG fulfills such an important role, it's probably a good idea to
make sure the list still works when there are wide spread outages.
There is only a single MX for merit.edu, and as far as I can tell it's not
even multihomed. Also, since this is email, it depends on the DNS.
In theory, news would be more rebust than mail, because of its distributed
nature and it should be possible to make news work without relying on the
DNS.
google: ipnmoo
(it's not really hiding)
it's many years old,
and inspired by the spirit originally intended
by craig's ipn-list. (i.e., it wasn't kc's idea)
it's still supported (at the very least)
but i don't consider it a reasonable substitute
for the Right Way.
but then i don't see any other Reasonable Substitutes
for the Right Way (i.e.., beyond nanog-mailinglist)
gaining any traction, so i probably shouldn't
be so hard on it.
http://www.caida.org/projects/ipnmoo/
telnet://ipnmoo.caida.org:4766/
(note i moved it from www.caida.org:4766;
i'll get the web page fixed tomorrow)
k
Also sprach Sean Donelan
In theory, news would be more rebust than mail, because of its distributed
nature and it should be possible to make news work without relying on the
DNS.
Many of us do not run news servers, and you have to 'login' to access it.
E-mail works because it is ubiquitous. IRC and Mud type interfaces
are probably better for casual use, and real time coordination during
outages, crisis or events requiring synchronous participation.
When we start having weird network conditions, I have learned to
quickly scan my mailbox for NANOG and Dshield and a few other lists..
sometimes it helps. E-Mail's great for this. It's there when I need it.
A more robust configuration for the NANOG e-mail list would be my
first choice. Maybe a backup east/west coast listserv address: nanog@....
just syncing the mailing list address daily would be enough?
I've got mailman running....
> Once upon a time, kc had a MOO -- we used to hang out there and discuss
> things in real time....Indeed. Once upon a time... one wonders why that is no longer the case. It
isn't as if a MOO (or any other flavor of favorite server) takes up much.
Is nobody offering, or is nobody using what's offered?
It'd be great if we had our own Slashdot site, with sections for outage
reports, bulletins, and threaded discussions that were spun off from the
main NANOG list because they were only of interest to a small group. The
Slashdot source is available but the install sounds fairly complex -
multiple perl modules, mySQL, etc. We've thought about developing a
prototype at Merit, but volunteers would certainly be welcome.
Hello Susan,
I assist in setting up Slashdot style sites all the time, and would be
happy to put something together, if there is enough interest. That
being said, mailing lists do not always translate well into forum
sites. In fact, the result is usually an unused forum that does not
server a real purpose.
I'd like to see what type of interest, if any, there is in a forum
style site. In order to avoid wasting bandwidth, you are welcome to
reply to me private with a +/-1 and I will be happy to post the
results.
Thursday, March 14, 2002, 8:58:13 AM, you wrote:
It'd be great if we had our own Slashdot site, with sections for outage
reports, bulletins, and threaded discussions that were spun off from the
main NANOG list because they were only of interest to a small group. The
Slashdot source is available but the install sounds fairly complex -
multiple perl modules, mySQL, etc. We've thought about developing a
prototype at Merit, but volunteers would certainly be welcome.
allan
Congress to Enter ICANN Fray
> In theory, news would be more rebust than mail, because of its distributed
> nature and it should be possible to make news work without relying on the
> DNS.
Many of us do not run news servers, and you have to 'login' to access it.
Obviously it's not a good idea to use the existing news service for
this... But if we're looking for a very robust mechanism to get
information around when there are many outages, building a network using
dedicated news servers would be a simple and effective way to do it.
Unlike just about anything else, news is truly distributed.
When we start having weird network conditions, I have learned to
quickly scan my mailbox for NANOG and Dshield and a few other lists..
sometimes it helps. E-Mail's great for this. It's there when I need it.
Agree, but the problem is the email service isn't very robust. You could
of course always use a news-to-mail gateway.
A more robust configuration for the NANOG e-mail list would be my
first choice. Maybe a backup east/west coast listserv address: nanog@....
just syncing the mailing list address daily would be enough?
It would probably help, yes.
Iljitsch van Beijnum
* iljitsch@muada.com (Iljitsch van Beijnum) [Thu 14 Mar 2002, 22:16 CET]:
Unlike just about anything else, news is truly distributed.
It's not. It's duplicated (as in, redundant).
-- Niels.
When did the Internet become CENTRAL to national security??? Mildly
important? Sure. Central? No way! I think Senator Burns is mistaking
national security for political security therefore he must DO SOMETHING
about the problems at ICANN.
Senator Burns, put down the microphone and back away from the cameras!
<snip>
"More fundamental questions also need to be addressed, such as whether
ICANN
is even the most appropriate organization to be tasked with such a
critical
mission, which is central to our national security," wrote Sen. Conrad
Burns