two questions:
o of the /24s in the arin region, what percentage are owned by arin
members?
o of the address holders in the arin region, what percentage are arin
members?
i understand that the latter will be slightly jittered because of the
database mess with multiple org ids for one entity. but i suspect you
can get close enough for government work.
randy
two questions:
o of the /24s in the arin region, what percentage are owned by arin
members?
Randy -
Happy to generate these - two questions for clarity.
1) Should we expand /16's and /8's into the corresponding number of /24's ?
(or do you only want those blocks issued originally as /24's to be counted)
2) In terms of categories, we could go strictly with /24's held by ARIN members
versus /24's held by non-members (and resulting percentages); note that would
be predominantly ISPs since end-users assignments from ARIN are unlikely to be
members unless they specifically opted to join. Alternatively, we could provide
counts /24's under RSA, /24's under LRSA, and /24's legacy-no-agreement as the
three categories of counts desired (and each percentage of the total)
So, based on above, would you prefer the /24 space statistics as asked
(member/non-member) or rsa/lrsa/legacy-no-agreement?
o of the address holders in the arin region, what percentage are arin
members?
Will do.
Thanks!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
Exactly right John. I think the term "owned" is a problem here.
It seems to me that the terms would correctly be "holder" or who the address space was issued to or "user" being the end user using that space.
Wouldn't all of the holders be ARIN members unless grandfathered in?
Steven Naslund
Chicago IL
o of the /24s in the arin region, what percentage are owned by arin
members?1) Should we expand /16's and /8's into the corresponding number of
/24's ?
sorry. i mean the number of /24 equivalents. so yes, expand /7-/23
2) In terms of categories, we could go strictly with /24's held by ARIN members
versus /24's held by non-members (and resulting percentages)
yep
Alternatively, we could provide counts /24's under RSA, /24's under
LRSA, and /24's legacy-no-agreement as the three categories of counts
desired (and each percentage of the total)
that would work, presuming those three categories cover all space, e.g.
us military etc.
randy
I think the term "owned" is a problem here.
sorry not to get your religious icons correctly. full refund below.
jeezus! get a life.
randy
Sorry Randy,
I was not trying to criticize your terminology. I was just wondering about the question trying to be answered here. The holder of an address space and the end user of the address space are two really different things. The holder is often an ARIN member or grandfathered in and an end user (including most ISP customers) are not going to be ARIN members. I know that you and most of the other on here know that they are not "owners" of the space. I was just trying to figure out if your term "owner" refers to the holder of the space or the user of the space. Not trying to make a political statement.
I apologize if I gave you the impression that I disapproved of your question.
Steve
sorry steve.
was not chasing down the tree. not clear what a useful measurement
would be.
randy
Steve -
Thanks for the reminder; terminology aside, I think we have
a good understanding of Randy's request for statistics.
We'll put these together asap.
/John
No problem. One of the risks in text communication.
I guess the usefulness of the measurement would be in what the original question is?
If we knew more about what the membership / non-membership question was about it would be easier. I guess if we were really trying to figure out how much address space is within ARIN member "control", just the holder would be enough to know. For example, you could say the X% of space is being used by ARIN members and X% is in use by legacy users. Since the holder could change or revoke access to the space by an end user I guess we could say they control it.
For other questions it might be more important to know who is "using" an address space. Like how much space is issued to end users directly by ARIN vs provided to them by service providers. The two types would have very different rules regarding reallocation and such.
Steve
He is definitely in the authoritative hands 
Steve
Exactly right John. I think the term "owned" is a problem here.
It seems to me that the terms would correctly be "holder" or who the address space was issued to or "user" being the end user using that space.
We use address holder to recognize the party with the rights to the address block.
Wouldn't all of the holders be ARIN members unless grandfathered in?
If you are an ISP who has an ARIN-issued allocation, you are a
member. If you have an end-user assignment or legacy block,
you can be a member, but it is not automatic.
FYI,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
Unless I misremember, everyone who receives a direct allocation from ARIN
and signs an RSA is automatically a member. It's not clear to me what
"owner of a /24 network" means in that context. (I don't recall if signing
an LRSA in and of itself also makes one a member, since by the time we had
signed an LRSA, we had long since received our direct IPv6 allocation under
an RSA.)
But perhaps Randy is looking for the number of /24 equivalents allocated to
legacy resource holders who haven't also received an IPv6 direct allocation
or other IPv4 direct allocation under an RSA?
Scott
But perhaps Randy is looking for the number of /24 equivalents
allocated to legacy resource holders who haven't also received an IPv6
direct allocation or other IPv4 direct allocation under an RSA?
what percentage of address space is held by members and what percentage
by non-members (lrsa-only is part of the latter)?
what percentage of holding organizations are members and what percentage
not members (lrsa-only being part of the latter)?
i thought this was simple.
randy
Randy -
It is... we'll put these together.
Folks who wish to discuss ARIN address holders and members, please
find an ARIN mailing list (such as ppml)
Thanks!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
Randy -
Total number of /24s of space directly registered in ARIN's database = 6,644,175 (101.38 /8 equivalents)
Of those: 2,808,621 /24s of space (42.3%) are registered to ARIN members (42.86 /8 equivalents)
Total number of Org IDs with directly registered IPv4 addresses = 26,148
Of those: 4,520 (17%) are ARIN members
FYI,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
It’s also impacted by the fact that most end-user resource holders with direct assignments do not choose to pay an extra fee for membership.
So, the number that are ARIN members will be very different from the number that are direct assignments/allocations.
Owen
It’s also impacted by the fact that most end-user resource holders with direct assignments do not choose to pay an extra fee for membership.
So, the number that are ARIN members will be very different from the number that are direct assignments/allocations.
Owen
john:
i appreciate the numbers. thanks! and, btw, it has always been a
pleasure to work with arin staff.
Total number of /24s of space directly registered in ARIN's database =
6,644,175 (101.38 /8 equivalents)Of those: 2,808,621 /24s of space (42.3%) are registered to ARIN
members (42.86 /8 equivalents)Total number of Org IDs with directly registered IPv4 addresses = 26,148
Of those: 4,520 (17%) are ARIN members
the arin membership consists of 17% of the address holding organizations
in the region (plus a few folk who buy membership), and they hold 42% of
the address space.
so the 17% (give or take) elect the board [0], and the board, through a
complex inside-controlled process [1], sets policy for the other
unrepresented 83%. and the board and policy wonks set policy and
contracts, among other things the lrsa and rsa, which place serious
barriers to becoming a member, such as clauses with arin being able to
unilaterally change ts&cs arbitrarily. [2] [3]
and i know the "anyone can partiipate" theory. but in fact extremely
few participate, and arin pays many of the policy wonks to fly around
the world business class and spread the arin regulatory religion. no
other rir does this.
and this is a representative bottom up organization claiming legitimacy
in the global arena? i would be interested in similar numbers for other
rirs, and whether their service agreements are similarly onerous. (and
i believe that ripe is actively tearing down barriers to participation).
randy
Yes and no… Everyone who receives a direct allocation is a member.
Those who receive direct assignments from ARIN, OTOH, are not members unless
they choose to also pay an additional $500/year for that membership.
Owen
If you intend for RSA assignment holders to also be semi-randomly split between
the two categories, then, yes.
If not, then, your exact words do not say exactly what you intend.
Owen