Why do some companies get depeered and some don't?

I would say it's a "peering spat", because Cogent's press releases
stated Sprint failed to meet Sprint's "contractual obligation" to peer
with them on a settlement-free basis.
That's a political issue that (I expect) remains to be mediated by the courts.

The disconnection should have been eminently forseeable by Cogent, if
the entire peering was indicated by Sprint as being on a "trial
basis". To maintain connectivity, Cogent should have had a
contingency in place and taken it, when Sprint rejected their request
for settlement-free peering.

There is something a bit worst for a single-homed customer than a Tier
1 provider that gets in peering spats; that IS: being single-homed
to a provider who wants to say they're
"Tier 1" when in fact: they may _really_ be a Tier 2 in disguise.

And who as a result of wanting to market themselves "Tier 1" refuses
to pay their
paid peering fees.

Because it means your provider _could_ have taken actions to preserve
connectivity,
but something else was so much more important to them than providing
the product
you their customer expect, that they intentionally allow it to get in the way.

In other words, if you want to be single-homed, a Tier 2 or 3
upstream that admits they're
a Tier 2 or 3, and provides you redundancy and excellent connectivity,
seems like
the thing to find..

Because a Tier 2 posing and marketing as a Tier 1 might prioritize
their continued
marketing themselves as a Tier 1 over actually providing Tier 1 connectivity.

note that i have friends at both sprint and cogent and i'm not taking sides.

"James Hess" <mysidia@gmail.com> writes:

I would say it's a "peering spat", because Cogent's press releases stated
Sprint failed to meet Sprint's "contractual obligation" to peer with them
on a settlement-free basis. That's a political issue that (I expect)
remains to be mediated by the courts.

if cogent signed a trial peering contract which required payment if sprint
determined after three months that cogent did not qualify, then the court's
open questions are was the contract valid (and thus, does cogent owe sprint
money) and why isn't there some kind of common carriage law for IP like in
dialtone to protect the end users from these types of partition events? i
guess we'll all see and discuss the filings here. perhaps cogent countersued
on some grounds having to do with the interconnect itself, but with wvfiber
standing ready to act as a friend of the court, that's a dangerous game.

The disconnection should have been eminently forseeable by Cogent, if the
entire peering was indicated by Sprint as being on a "trial basis". To
maintain connectivity, Cogent should have had a contingency in place and
taken it, when Sprint rejected their request for settlement-free peering.

by that reasoning shouldn't sprint have also had such a contingency plan?

There is something a bit worst for a single-homed customer than a Tier 1
provider that gets in peering spats; that IS: being single-homed to a
provider who wants to say they're "Tier 1" when in fact: they may
_really_ be a Tier 2 in disguise.

And who as a result of wanting to market themselves "Tier 1" refuses to
pay their paid peering fees.

this is similar to the logic PSI gave me when i was at MFN. of course, both
companies later went through bankruptcy (but only one came out again). but
i remember getting PSI's demand for payment for peering, looking at network
maps, saying "but, my network is BIGGER than yours, more routers, more/fatter
pipes, more peering edges, more traffic" and asking "why would i pay you?"
but according to PSI they had more eyeballs and i had a ratio problem. note
that MFN *did* make arrangements for our customers to reach and be reached by
PSI's customers before the date PSI told us they were shutting down peering.
(and, the fact that PSI was behind on their their payments to MFN for dark
fiber IRU's helped my case considerably.)

i re-raise this story not because i'm still pissed off about it, but because
peering spats *always* involve assertions of unfairness from both sides. it's
just business, and it's all part of the game. ultimately somebody will blink.

...

Because a Tier 2 posing and marketing as a Tier 1 might prioritize their
continued marketing themselves as a Tier 1 over actually providing Tier 1
connectivity.

Government regulation of peering relationships would be a disaster... I
fear regulatory organizations are too easily influenced by the largest
players.

...

the very fact that folks speak about tiers here may be a red flag to
regulators. forgetting the "t" word for the moment, peering is a business
decision involving both tactical cost:benefit and strategic cost:benefit,
and ultimately we can expect cogent and sprint to work it out on that basis,
not on the "t" word basis.

Reading this accounting of Sprint's side of the story reveals something that's not too surprising about Sprint. They've got serious accounting problems.

The trial of peering they talk about was for three months in 2007, ending in September 2007. They claim to have billed Cogent at the end of it, though knowing Sprint's billing (having had them fail to send me bills, then hit me with late fees) they probably can't prove that. But this is a YEAR later.

They let an account linger for a year without collecting or terminating the services provided. That's their own damned fault. This indicates poor management of Accounts Receivable. That's your problem, Sprint, deal with it.

Also in this document is a complaint that Cogent failed to disconnect. Excuse me? This was a trial PEERING agreement. That implies one or a series of point-to-point connections. That implies EITHER party can disconnect the circuits (in reality, the physical circuit doesn't even matter, just shut down the BGP session(s)).

So Sprint failed to manage Accounts Receivable and left this "temporary" circuit in place too long. Some bean counter noticed this a year later. Way to go Sprint.

As I've noted previously, Sprint hurt its own customers by the action taken. It's my guess they restored the circuit to avoid further damage to themselves that resulted from their actions.

It's interesting to see a biased, "blame Cogent first" mentality in so many postings on NANOG. Maybe they deserve it, maybe not. But after reading the traffic here, after living through the consequences of the Cogent/L3 depeering, and after reading what Sprint said on their page, my read on this is that Sprint's accounting department might need some house cleaning.

> Problem resolved?

Sprint Portal

Reading this accounting of Sprint's side of the story reveals something that's not too surprising about Sprint. They've got serious accounting problems.

The trial of peering they talk about was for three months in 2007, ending in September 2007. They claim to have billed Cogent at the end of it, though knowing Sprint's billing (having had them fail to send me bills, then hit me with late fees) they probably can't prove that. But this is a YEAR later.

They let an account linger for a year without collecting or terminating the services provided. That's their own damned fault. This indicates poor management of Accounts Receivable. That's your problem, Sprint, deal with it.

Also in this document is a complaint that Cogent failed to disconnect. Excuse me? This was a trial PEERING agreement. That implies one or a series of point-to-point connections. That implies EITHER party can disconnect the circuits (in reality, the physical circuit doesn't even matter, just shut down the BGP session(s)).

So Sprint failed to manage Accounts Receivable and left this "temporary" circuit in place too long. Some bean counter noticed this a year later. Way to go Sprint.

As I've noted previously, Sprint hurt its own customers by the action taken. It's my guess they restored the circuit to avoid further damage to themselves that resulted from their actions.

You have an interesting set of assumptions. Is there any reason you did not give Sprint the benefit of the doubt? For instance, is it not possible that Sprint knew this and was trying "for a year" to fix the problem without taking such drastic steps? Because they did not want to hurt their own customers?

It's interesting to see a biased, "blame Cogent first" mentality in so many postings on NANOG. Maybe they deserve it, maybe not. But after reading the traffic here, after living through the consequences of the Cogent/L3 depeering, and after reading what Sprint said on their page, my read on this is that Sprint's accounting department might need some house cleaning.

And I thought just the opposite.

Having a clear contract with clear terms, giving Cogent plenty of notice, taking the links down slowly over time to ensure Cogent knew what was happening, etc., etc. That was very up-front, above-board, and more than polite on Sprint's part, IMHO.

Compare Sprint's actions & attitude to Cogent's sub-12-hour notice when they de-peered Telia.

Yeah, Cogent is definitely the more professional company....

Daniel Senie <dts@senie.com> writes:

Sprint Portal

...

Also in this document is a complaint that Cogent failed to disconnect.
Excuse me? This was a trial PEERING agreement. That implies one or a
series of point-to-point connections. That implies EITHER party can
disconnect the circuits (in reality, the physical circuit doesn't even
matter, just shut down the BGP session(s)).

...

Not having read the contract in question, my assumption when I read Sprint's
account of their depeering of Cogent was that the trial peering contract says
"Sprint will notify Cogent of its qualification status after 90 days; if in
Sprint's estimation Cogent does not qualify, and Sprint notifies Cogent of
that fact, then Cogent will either disconnect or start paying." Sprint's
document's wording is careful even if their <TITLE> is not. If they are
involved in litigation with Cogent then actual lawyers would have seen that
text (if not necessarily the <TITLE>) before it went out. The heart of the
lawsuit might be whether Cogent did or didn't implicitly agree to pay, as
signalled by their lack of disconnection after their 90 day notice. None of
us who aren't parties to the dispute can do other than wonder, ponder, guess.

FWIW, that's the <TITLE> on every page on the website.

Best,

-M<

* Paul Vixie:

if cogent signed a trial peering contract which required payment if sprint
determined after three months that cogent did not qualify, then the court's
open questions are was the contract valid (and thus, does cogent owe sprint
money) and why isn't there some kind of common carriage law for IP like in
dialtone to protect the end users from these types of partition events?

Even for the phone network, I don't think you've got full isolation of
end users from partition. For instance, beyond geographical area
codes, full connectivity is not guaranteed (and not given) on the
German PSTN. Is this different in the U.S.? Can you really call all
phone sex numbers from all residential lines (content filters
notwithstanding)?

Since there is active litigation going on over this, it's also possible an attorney said, "hmmm... maybe you should wait until the judge
has rendered an opinion -- and they got to their temporary re-establishment."

I haven't looked, and don't know if I have access, to the court's motions/filings on this matter.

Deepak