One of the biggest issues with the list as I've seen from time to time from my perspective, is the definition of "operations". So on a quick breakdown of the logical definition of NANOG, I derive "Operations of the North American Network". The problem with this stems from far too many bastardizing their own definition of what it should be. If I'm experiencing issues on the "Network" in North America, where else should I look for assistance but from a group that manages (or at least portrays to manage) operations in North America? I've posted quite a few questions here and there, many have said they've made no sense. DoS attacks... Mork calling Olson come in Olson... These do affect networks... Botnets, worms and viruses... Mork calling... Get the point?
How many posts have we seen on configuring a router that were multi-threaded into a long post of "my config is better than yours" or similar. These are off-topic but I wouldn't trade em for the world. I've learned much from them, as have I from all sorts of posts on topic or not. I can see where there would be annoyance from certain threads, but I see more annoyance from the whiners and complainers who spew the same message inserting nothing worth reading and for this I have filters in place.
William Allen Simpson wrote:
Especially as I'm not aware of any Network Operator worth their salt that
doesn't have regular contact with their support call centers.
Regular contact? As in finding the name of someone who actually has a clue? Not the contact information of some helpdesk goon who doesn't understand the output of a traceroute? As in some helpdesk goon who understands what an AS is?
Getting (semi)back on topic, who decides what's on topic or not, it seems to be based on one's personal view of what is and isn't relevant.
"The charter of the NANOG list was written to avoid being too specific and to not preclude useful network-relevent discussion"
Viruses and worms: Relevant
DoS attacks: Relevant
Router configuration: Semi-Relevant
If someone's misconfiguration will affect your network, then router configurations are somewhat relevant.
I recall having a fiber issue a while back (http://www.irbs.net/internet/nanog/0408/0563.html) and although it was not relevant to NANOG whatsoever, who else better to ask then the experienced engineers and I was thankful for the responses I received. I also recall talking about a possible huge DoS against the BGP protocol (which COULD affect hundreds) yet the response was... "You're off-topic, etc." not including the off-list responses I received.
Looking back at some of the threads I see posted here, whenever I tend to see something "operational" that doesn't bode well with someone, I see people quick to shoot a "you're off-topic" response offering nothing more than wasted bandwidth. It is those quick to shoot off those responses who give me the impression that they're nothing more than lazy whiners incapable of offering assistance/solutions/tips/etc.
BGP exploitation? (http://www.irbs.net/internet/nanog/0308/1018.html) was shot down and I quote: "this is almost certainly not a topic for Nanog". Really? To date I have not released plenty of stupid programs capable of wrecking havoc because they serve no purpose. My intentions when I posted this was to inform others "Hey did you know that X could possible break your neighboring..." It was sent with hopes of working with engineers to find a resolution. I'm sure if I shot off a program to the "black hat" community, I would have been an ass since I didn't properly notify the powers that be (whoever these are these days).
Perhaps "Operations" need be dissected, re-defined and re-posted on NANOG.
Laptop policies? http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg01619.html How is/was this relevant?
So in other news, has anyone in the south experienced issues with Time Warner (South Carolina, Louisiana, etc.) experienced issues with filtering? Specifically SIP? I have tons of people with issues regarding VoIP and (not suprisingly) they happen to all be related to Time Warner.