Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt. If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
I wish I could be there!
Now to make sure that someone with clue from the Chicago Sun Times and the Chicago Tribune are both there, with photographers. Does anyone on this list have any contacts at either of these papers?
Just a brief statement that kinda goes without saying but I'll say it
anyway.
Although I'm not going to be there personally, I do intend to watch
the netcast.
I would just ask (and I'm sure merit folks share this) that despite
the actions that have been taken by verisign and the conflicts etc,
that people please be curteous and not just outright harrass their
representatives but allow them to make their presentation as they
intend. (The last thing we need to do is lend credence to the
statements that have been made in the press regarding this community.)
Dan and Owen, I nominate you two for the tomato acquisition and distribution committee.
To recap: At NANOG 29 in Chicago, on Monday October 20th at 9:15 am a session on "VeriSign's Wildcard Record: Effects and Responses" will be held, with Mark Kosters and Matt Larson from VeriSign and Suzanne Woolf from ISC:
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a red shirt.
Ahem. Many of us are Star Trek experts, and it will take a LOT more than this to get people to wear a red shirt.
If possible, please buy/bring a tomato. Take your tomato to the front of the room and place them in a pile before Verisign, to make it absolutely clear how you feel about Verisign's wildcards and sitefinder. Please do not throw your tomatoes.
Given that we deal, in any case, with virtualizations, I rather like the idea, instead, of projecting "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" on several walls. One can also explain that the careful designers at Verisign are spiritual kin to the producer and director of that movie.
Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will
sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile
no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really.
I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it.
Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it
a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl.
Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will
sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile
no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really.
I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it.
Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it
a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl.
EXACTLY.
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or
other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Great idea! Can we count on Dan for tomato acquisition and for Owen for post-protest dispersal to a foodbank?
If you are attending NANOG 29, please attend this session and wear a
red shirt.
Ahem. Many of us are Star Trek experts, and it will take a LOT more than
this to get people to wear a red shirt.
Huh? I'm somewhat familiar with Star Trek, and, I realize the red shirts
are usually the first to die
Right the first time!
Porjecting the movie shows some level of group leadership support.
Stacking tomatoes shows just how much of the community is opposed
to wildcards. I think in this case, a physical show of tomatoes is
more effective.
You're right--it's just that I enjoy the movies as one of the worst implementations ever done. Seemed appropriate.
The neatly stacked voting pyramid is an excellent idea, especially if there were any media coverage.
Sort of reminiscent of the end of Conan the Destroyer, as the torches go out.
Have a vote with the tomatoes. All those who oppose the wildcards would put their tomatoes or tomato-substitutes in one pile, all those who approve of the wildcards would put their token-of-choice in another pile.
We need a *visual* way to make the point to Verisign, to ICANN, to the press, to the Internet using public who do not understand the underlying technical issue. The press is not going to put this story on the wire and carry it on the front page of newspapers around the world if the story is "NANOG meeting attendees voted 417 to 3 to indicate disapproval of Verisign's wildcard scheme in the .com and .net root server". A photo montage showing people buying tomatoes, holding tomatoes, placing tomatoes in a pile, a room full of people wearing red shirts, etc. THAT is what the press needs to get the message out to the people to shame ICANN into doing the right thing. Look at this as a photo-op for NANOG participants to collectively make their point known in a visually graphic way.
: >Agreed. I plan to wear a red shirt and bring a tomatoe. The tomato will
: >sit quietly on the table near me. It will not be used as a projectile
: >no matter how much Verisign tries to convince me it should. Really.
: >I will not throw the tomato at Verisign no matter how much they deserve it.
: >
: >Wayne is right. For this to have the desired effect, we need to make it
: >a peaceful and symbolic protest, not a brawl.
:
: EXACTLY.
: (I so wish I could be there!)
Me too. If this goes through, someone please be sure to get pictures.
Having been a part of many fraternity pranks along this line, I might
remind some of a glitch with this line of thinking.
VeriSign employees read this list. (Verisign shows up with tomatoes & red
"I love VeriSign" shirts saying if you like the idea...wear shirt && grab
tomato to stack up front.)
This works better spontaneously on site. Great idea, but being voiced in
advance means your effort can be put to their use. (If you were playing a
prank on my fraternity, that's what I'd do.)
I don't think this idea, while amusing, will accomplish the goal. The bind
patch and other methods of nullifying their corporate group think crap that
makes them think this is a good idea is more our style. (Play smarter, not
harder.)
I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or
other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Or just use your time and resources to do some good for
those who are less fortunate in the first place. Using
food of any kind for such a display is simply
unacceptable (and BTW, in no way funny or cute) in a
world filled with so much hunger, poverty, and
despair. Indeed, such an activity will reflect very
poorly on us all, notwithstanding any issue relating to
the DNS.
Maybe a "vote" at the end of the presentation would be better.
After Verisign has to say what they want, it would be interesting to see what the participants think of starting Site Finder again.
Its not as press worthy... but it lets Verisign have their say, and gives the community a voice right there on the spot on the issue.
Have a vote with the tomatoes. All those who oppose the wildcards would put their tomatoes or tomato-substitutes in one pile, all those who approve of the wildcards would put their token-of-choice in another pile.
I'm not sure I really want to think about the alternate-token-of-choice. Let me stipulate that I was born and brought up in Northern New Jersey, started as a chemist exposed to the usual organic chemistry aromas, and STILL consider some things as smelling bad.
We need a *visual* way to make the point to Verisign, to ICANN, to the press, to the Internet using public who do not understand the underlying technical issue. The press is not going to put this story on the wire and carry it on the front page of newspapers around the world if the story is "NANOG meeting attendees voted 417 to 3 to indicate disapproval of Verisign's wildcard scheme in the .com and .net root server". A photo montage showing people buying tomatoes, holding tomatoes, placing tomatoes in a pile, a room full of people wearing red shirts, etc. THAT is what the press needs to get the message out to the people to shame ICANN into doing the right thing. Look at this as a photo-op for NANOG participants to collectively make their point known in a visually graphic way.
From experience back in my more general political days, either have a see-through bag or basket for the tomatoes. While a nice pyramid would be nice, without very careful handling, we will have tomatoes bouncing in all directions.
The two options are not mutually exclusive, and, since Verisign has
chosen to turn this into a press-battle, I think it would be good not
to ignore that battlefield.
I have no religion about the particular choice of fruit/vegetable (yes, I know
tomatoes are technically fruit).
However, I think we should try to stick to Red and the symbolism of the tomato
cannot be denied. It has long been used as a response to bad implementation
and that is exactly what we are responding to here. I would welcome your
oranges or any other fruit/vegetable of protest, but, I think tomatoes
make the best statement.
I have no financial or other interest in tomatoes (although I think they're
tasty), and there is no tomato cabal of which I am aware.
I think that the number of people showing that they oppose Verisign would
still carry the day on the meaning of the tomatoes and red shirts. Verisign
could try to delude themselves into believing it was ambiguous, but, I don't
think the press or the attendees would buy it.
Also, I don't think Verisign regards us as important enough to put that level
of effort into such an activity. As such, I still think we should go ahead
and I think it will have some of the desired effects. If not, it'll still
be fun and historic within NANOG.
Having been a part of many fraternity pranks along this line, I might
remind some of a glitch with this line of thinking.
VeriSign employees read this list. (Verisign shows up with tomatoes & red
"I love VeriSign" shirts saying if you like the idea...wear shirt && grab
tomato to stack up front.)
It won't be anything that blatant. They'll just have their PR
people prepare a strategy to make it look ridiculous ("Old guard
technologists threaten innovation with tomatoes"). Verisign has
conceded that NANOGers are apposed to the wildcards in com and
net--that isn't their battle. To make an impression on the press,
you've got to show why it *matters* that you're against it, and a pile
of tomatoes is not going to do it. If anything, it plays right into
their hands by positioning them as the authority and NANOG as a bunch
of immature college pranksters. If I were Verisign PR, I'd love
having that material to work with.
I don't think this idea, while amusing, will accomplish the goal. The bind
patch and other methods of nullifying their corporate group think crap that
makes them think this is a good idea is more our style. (Play smarter, not
harder.)
And write your congressmen to explain how Verisign is abusing a
government granted monopoly to stop others (including M$ and AOL) from
innovating at the edge, because that's where this is headed--Verisign
is ultimately counting on having better lobbyists with USDOC than
ICANN, and they're probably safe to do so unless DOC feels some
oversight from above.
<snip>
And write your congressmen to explain how Verisign is abusing a
government granted monopoly to stop others (including M$ and AOL) from
innovating at the edge, because that's where this is headed--Verisign
is ultimately counting on having better lobbyists with USDOC than
ICANN, and they're probably safe to do so unless DOC feels some
oversight from above.
Has anybody thought to explore the trademark implications of sitefinder?
For example, verisign is returning A records (and subsequently earning revenue from that traffic) for say:
>> I would also suggest that we try to make contact with a second-harvest or
>> other organization that may be able to use the tomatoes afterwards.
Or just use your time and resources to do some good for
those who are less fortunate in the first place. Using
food of any kind for such a display is simply
unacceptable (and BTW, in no way funny or cute) in a
world filled with so much hunger, poverty, and
despair. Indeed, such an activity will reflect very
poorly on us all, notwithstanding any issue relating to
the DNS.
I agree with Dave. Tomatoes or any other fruit is more of a fraternity stunt. It also involves logistics. Why not have everyone stand up and turn around and face the back of the auditorium while Verisign gives its presentation (and stand quietly)? It shows your displeasure and eliminates the chance that some hothead will toss his tomato. It also creates a great photo-shoot.
