The FCC is planning new net neutrality rules. And they could enshrine pay-for-play. - The Washington Post

Okay, I'm not as seasoned as a big chunk of this list, but please correct me if I'm wrong in finding this article a crock of crap. With Comcast/Netflix being in the mix and by association Cogent in the background of that there's obviously room for some heated opinions, but here goes anyway...

A long, long time ago when the Internet was young and few, if any had thought
to make a profit off it, an unofficial system developed among the network
providers who carried the traffic: You carry my traffic and I'll carry yours
and we don't need money to change hands. This system has collapsed under
modern realities.

I wasn't aware that settlement-free peering had "collapsed". Not saying it's the "only way", but "she ain't dead yet".

Seltzer uses that to set up balanced ratios as the secret sauce that makes settlement-free peering viable:
"The old system made sense when the amount of traffic each network was sending to the other was roughly equivalent."

...and since Netflix sends Comcast more than it gets, therefor Netflix needs to buck up:
"Of course Netflix should pay network providers in order to get the huge amounts of bandwidth they require in order to reach their customers with sufficient quality."

But this isn't talking about transit; this is about Comcast as an edge network in this context and Netflix as a content provider sending to Comcast users the traffic that they requested. Is there really anything more nuanced here than:

1. Comcast sells connectivity to their end users and sizes their network according to an oversubscription ratio they're happy with. (Nothing wrong here; oversubscription is a fact of life).
2. Bandwidth-heavy applications like Netflix enter the market.
3. Comcast's customers start using these bandwidth-heavy applications and suck in more data than Comcast was betting on.
4. Comcast has to upgrade connectivity, e.g. at peering points with the heavy inbound traffic sources, accordingly in order to satisfy their customers' usage.

How is this *not* Comcast's problem? If my users are requesting more traffic than I banked on, how is it not my responsibility to ensure I have capacity to handle that? I have gear; you have gear. I upgrade or add ports on my side; you upgrade or add ports on your side. Am I missing something?

Overall it seems like a bad (and very public) precedent & shift towards double dipping, and the pay-for-play bits in the bastardized "Open Internet" rules don't help on that front. Now, Comcast is free to leverage their customers as bargaining chips to try to extract payments, and Randy's line of encouraging his competitors to do this sort thing seems fitting here. Basically this doesn't harm me directly at this point. Considering the lack of broadband options for large parts of the US, though, it seems that end users are getting the short end of the stick without any real recourse while that plays out.

How is this *not* Comcast's problem? If my users are requesting more

traffic than I banked on, how is it not my responsibility to ensure I have
capacity to handle that? I have gear; you have gear. I upgrade or add
ports on my side; you upgrade or add ports on your side. Am I missing
something?

Sort of yes, it's Comcasts problem to upgrade subscriber lines but if that
point of congestion is the links between Netflix and Comcast then Netflix
would be on the hook to ensure they have enough capacity to Comcast to get
the data at least gets TO the Comcast network. The argument at hand is if
Comcast permitted to charge them for the links to get to their network or
should they be free/settlement free. I think it should be OK to charge for
those links as long as its a fair market rate and the price doesn't
basically amount to extortion. Sadly the numbers are not public so I
couldn't tell you one way or the other aside from I disagree with the
position Netflix seems to be taking that they simply must be free. Once
that traffic is given directly to comcast no other party receives payment
for delivering it so there is no double billing.

This diagram best describes the relationship (ignoring pricing):
http://www.digitalsociety.org/files/gou/free-and-paid-peering.png

"Content provider" would be Netflix and Comcast would be Broadband ISP 1.

...but if that point of congestion is the links between Netflix and Comcast...

Which, from the outside, does appear to have been the case.

...then Netflix would be on the hook to ensure they have enough capacity to Comcast to get the data at least gets TO the Comcast network.

Which I don't believe was a problem? Again, outside looking in, but the appearances seemed to indicate that Comcast was refusing to upgrade capacity/ports, whereas I didn't see anything indicating that Netflix was doing the same. So:

I have gear; you have gear. I upgrade or add ports on my side; you upgrade or add ports on your side.

The argument at hand is if Comcast permitted to charge them for the links to get to their network or should they be free/settlement free. I think it should be OK to charge for those links as long as its a fair market rate and the price doesn't basically amount to extortion.

Are we talking here about transport between Netflix's POPs and Comcast's? I definitely don't expect Comcast to foot the bill for transport between the two, and if Netflix was asking for that I'm with you that would be out of line. If there are existing exchange points, though, would it not be reasonable to expect each side to up their capacity at those points?

Once that traffic is given directly to comcast no other party receives payment for delivering it so there is no double billing.

The "double-dip" reference was to charging both the content provider and the ISP's own customer to deliver the same bits. If the traffic from Netflix was via Netflix's transit provider and Comcast then again was looking to bill Netflix to accept the traffic, we'd hit double billing.

I guess that's the question here: If additional transport directly been POPs of the two parties was needed, somebody has to pay for the links. Releases around the deal seemed to indicate that the peering was happening at IXs (haven't checked this thoroughly), so at that point it would seem reasonable for each party to handle their own capacity to the peering points and call it even. No?

h/t Suresh Ramasubramanian

FCC throws in the towel on net neutrality

FCC throws in the towel on net neutrality | ZDNET

Why isn't it as simple as I'm paying my ISP to deliver the bits to me
and Netflix is paying their [cdn?] provider to deliver the bits to me.
Netflix is already paying their provider to deliver the bits to me,
so why do they have to also pay my ISP to deliver the bits to me?

It seems the FCC is on a roll - not only giving up on net neutrality
but building up the local monopoly:
http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2014/db0423/DOC-326703A1.txt

  "The concept of targeting subsidies for broadband and voice service
to pockets of rural America where they are needed most is central to
the FCC's 2011 reforms. Later this year, "price cap" carriers will be
given the opportunity to accept Connect America Fund support in high
cost areas based on detailed local cost estimates, calculated by a
cost model. Incumbent carriers must choose to accept or decline the
offer of support for all entire high-cost locations they serve in a
given state; if they decline, the subsidies will be made available to
other providers, awarded through a Phase II competitive bidding
process."

Why do the incumbent carriers get the right of first refusal for
subsidies? They're the ones that haven't served their local
population so it seems like they should be the *last* to be offered
subsidies.

Lee

If it were through a switch at the exchange it would be on each of them to
individually upgrade their capacity to it but at the capacities they are at
it they are beyond what would make sense financially to go over an exchange
switch so they would connect directly instead. It's likely more along the
lines of needing several 100G ports as Netflix is over 30% of peak usage
traffic in North America:

"Netflix (31.6%) holds its ground as the leading downstream application in
North America and together with YouTube (18.6%) accounts for over 50% of
downstream traffic on fixed networks." (source
https://www.sandvine.com/trends/global-internet-phenomena/ )

That amount of data is massive scale. I don't see it as double dipping
because each party is buying the pipe they are using. I am buying a 15Mbps
pipe to my home but just because we are communicating over the Internet
doesn't mean the money I am paying covers the cost of your connection too.
You must still buy your own pipe in the same way Netflix would. I covered
this scenario in more detail in my post "What Net Neutrality should and
should not cover" but if you expand on the assumption that paying for an
internet connection also pays for the direct connection of every party who
you exchange traffic with then you have a scenario where only half the
people connected to the Internet should have to pay at all for their
connection because any scenario where people simply buy their own pipe
would be considered "double billing".

The cost for residential broadband is high enough in the US without a
policy like that in place. If there is one policy that would keep poor
families from being able to afford broadband it would be that one.

The size of the pipes involved doesn't change the fundamental premise that double-dipping is involved. Comcast, et al want to be paid twice for the same traffic. The money I pay Verizon every month for my Fios connection, by itself, doesn't pay for the rest of their network, but take the millions of Fios customers as a whole, and the revenue stream is significant. We'll leave the government-mandated revenue stream out of the equation for now. Just about every ISP, and certainly all of the big ones, practice statistical multiplexing - there is always some amount of oversubscription at play. Add up the subscription speeds of every Fios customer, and the total ingress/egress capacity of Verizon's network, and the two numbers will not be equal - not by a long shot.

While 100G linecards and optics are still very expensive, those costs will come down over time. Even at that, the cost of adding a 100G link between Big Network A and Big Network B is at most pennies per customer.

jms

What are any of you talking about? Have you even bothered to read for
example the wikipedia article on "monopoly" or are you so solipsistic
that you just make up the entire universe in your head? Do you also
pontificate on quantum physics and neurosurgery when the urge strikes
you???

Sorry but this discussion is so, uneducated, usage of terms which are
not as they are defined in the English or any other language, etc.

<BOLD>

But what do you think about the FCC's efforts in regard to "net
neutrality"?

</BOLD>

Do you agree with CNBC's assessment that the internet has a "fast
lane" and up until now FCC regulations prevented consumers and content
providers from using it under the guise of "net neutrality".

Do you believe there's anything at stake here for you beyond just
nattering about your own personal and peculiar notion of what a
"monopoly" is? Does that really matter to any of this?

I almost believe that this entire flame war on the definition of
monopoly is being fanned by sockpuppets whose job it is to make sure
no one here talks about net neutrality in any effective or at least
meaningful way.

  http://www.cnbc.com/id/101607254

  F.C.C., in 'Net Neutrality' Turnaround,
  Plans to Allow Fast Lane

  The Federal Communications Commission will propose new rules that
  allow Internet service providers to offer a faster lane through
  which to send video and other content to consumers, as long as a
  content company is willing to pay for it, according to people
  briefed on the proposals.

  ...

Would someone please define this "fast lane" for me? That would be a
really good start. Preferably the managers of that fast lane because
they surely must be on this list...no?

P.S. CNBC is owned by Comcast (or more specifically NBC Universal,
which is owned by Comcast.)

The "Fast Lane" perhaps starts as not counting traffic against metered
byte caps, similar to what ATT did on their mobile network. If the
content/service provider is willing to pay the provider, then the users
may not pay overage fees or get nasty letters anymore when they exceed
data caps. The second and more contentious part of it is using QoS to
guarantee the content/service provider's traffic is delivered, at the
expense of traffic from those who aren't paying. So if Netflix decides to
pay and Amazon Prime doesn't, well Netflix will make it to your house and
Prime might not. Right now everyone's traffic gets dropped equally. :slight_smile:
(Well more Netflix because there is a lot more of it).

-Phil (all opinions are my personal opinions)

Everyone interested in how this plays out today, can read Bill Norton's
Internet Peering book. While some say situations "didn't happen this way
or it happened that way" doesn't really matter. What is clear and matters
is the tactics/leverage backbones and networks use against each other in
trading traffic are very real and explained well.

These situations are one of the reasons I helped Coresite (AKA old
CRGwest) build Any2 Peering.

Amazon now has a kindle edition of the latest for just $10. Paper version
is like $50-$100.
The 2014 Internet Peering Playbook: Connecting to the Core of the Internet
[Kindle Edition]
William B. Norton (Author).

Bob Evans
CTO
Fiber Internet Center
Fiber International
MTI Corporation

Anyone afraid what will happen when companies which have monopolies can
charge content providers or guarantee packet loss?

In a normal "free market", if two companies with a mutual consumer have a
tiff, the consumer decides which to support. Where I live, I have one
broadband provider. If they get upset with, say, a streaming provider, I
cannot choose another BB company because I like the streaming company. I
MUST pick another streaming company, as that is the only thing I can
"choose".

[I speak only for myself here; any use of the word "we"
should be taken to represent only my sense of inclusion
with the rest of humanity, and not with any commercial
entity or organization. Any other characterization of the
following words is patently incorrect, and grounds for
possible actions, up to and including litigation. Please
don't be an ass, and quote me out of context, or as
representing something I'm not. Original post edited
slightly, with specific entity names replaced with
variables; you may do your own substitution back
into the variables as you feel appropriate. --MNP]

What if we turn the picture around slightly, and look
at it like the negotiations between broadcast networks
and cable companies? 2010's battle between Fox television
and cablevision comes to mind, where the content holder
blacked out access to their content for specific cable
companies unless they agree to pay the demanded fees.

It would be interesting to have seen $content_CEO take a
hard line stance; it wouldn't be hard to send a BGP feed
to video streaming servers, and if the requestor's IP was
from a prefix seen behind AS$foo, put up a message
informing the subscriber that their access to $company's
content would cease on such-and-such a date, due
to $BB_provider's unwillingness to agree to increase
interconnect capacity, and that if subscribers wished
to continue to see $company's content, they should consider
switching to a different network provider. Basically,
follow the same model News Corp used against
Cablevision, Viacom used against Time Warner,
or Disney used against Cablevision.

How long would $BB_provider be able to hold out against
the howls of its users, if there was a scrolling
banner across the top of the screen during their
favorite show, or favorite movie alerting them that
they would soon be unable to see that content
unless they switched to a different service provider?

It's easy to forget that the sword can be swung both
ways. Right now, $BB_provider is swinging the sharp edge
at $content; but $content is not without its own influence in
the market, and could swing the sword the other way,
cutting back at $BB_provider. Yes, it comes at some great
risk to $content, in terms of potential customer loss; but
no great wins come without great risks (unless you
cheat, and use the government to get you a big win
at no risk--but none of us like that model).

I think it's high time for content players to flex their
power, and push back on the eyeball networks that
attempt to use their customer base as hostages to
extract additional revenue from the content being
requested by their users. If the content providers
simply make it clearly visible to the end users that
they cannot watch the requested content on that
network, or that they can only watch in reduced
resolution from that network, it will have a two-fold
effect: a) traffic volume from the content provider
to the contentious network will be reduced, limiting
the need for the upgrades in the first place, and
b) customers of the provider will be informed of
their status as hostage cannon fodder on the
battlefield, allowing them to vote with their wallets.
One could potentially even insert suggestions
for alternate connectivity options they might
consider into the content feed, to help the
users vote with their wallets more easily.
Or, provide the phone number of the local
municipal office that granted the franchise
rights to the BB provider, along with instructions
on what to say when calling ("Hi--I'm a registered
voter in your district. If you'd like to get re-elected
next term, you need to repeal the cable franchise
agreement with broadband provider such-and-so,
as their monopolistic practices are hampering
my ability to freely choose what content I can
consume.")

We're not powerless in this fight. We often take
a victim mindset, and look for some other entity
to rescue us; but that's not the right way to thrive.
Instead of thinking that we're weak, we're victims,
and can't protect ourselves, or that we need some
other big, strong entity to shelter and protect us,
we need to realize that we *are* strong. We *are*
capable of standing up and fighting back. We *do*
have power, and can say no to the bullies.

They want us to feel we have no say in the matter,
that we cannot survive without protection.

But they are wrong.

We are strong.
We are capable.
We *can* fight back.

For example, in Patrick's case (he being a Bostonian
still, I believe), the municipal cable office responsible
for the cable franchises in the city are handled by:

How is this good for the consumer? How is this good for the market?

--
TTFN,
patrick

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/04/23/the-fcc-is-planning-new-net-neutrality-rules-and-they-could-enshrine-pay-for-play/

Composed on a virtual keyboard, please forgive typos.

I don't think it's good for the consumer or the market;
but I also don't think it's just up to the government to
step in and try to protect the consumer and the market.
There's a lot we can do to shape the outcome, if we
just step up to the plate and make our voices (and our
wallets) heard.

We are not victims.

We *are* the market.

Never forget; we have given them the power they
currently have.
And that means we can take it away again.

It won't be easy.

It won't be painless.

But it *can* be done.

Matt

It doesn’t. What it contains is all the players that can afford to play.

When the number of players that can afford to play==1 that’s pretty much the definition of monopoly.

If you want to try and pervert the term to meet your previous (bizarre) claims, then I’m sure you can do enough dancing around the dictionary to eventually arrive at your chosen destination.

However, Patrick and I are more concerned with the actual outcome for consumers (including ourselves) than with the sophistry required to engage in the discussion you appear to want to have.

Owen

The comments on the article are FAR more useful than the article itself.

Owen

There is a SIP error that amounts to this; 480, I think.

Though, of course, when I had a carrier who wouldn't complete calls cause
they didn't like my balance, did they *use* that code?

No, of course not.

Cheers,
-- jra

And if this were not true, Verizon wouldn't have agitated to get it made
illegal in 19 states for the local municipality to be the owner of that
"natural monopoly" transport network; see also my month long thread on
that topic and it's second and third order resultants in late 2012.

Cheers,
-- jra

From: "Hugo Slabbert" <hslabbert@stargate.ca>

But this isn't talking about transit; this is about Comcast as an edge
network in this context and Netflix as a content provider sending to
Comcast users the traffic that they requested. Is there really
anything more nuanced here than:

1. Comcast sells connectivity to their end users and sizes their
network according to an oversubscription ratio they're happy with.
(Nothing wrong here; oversubscription is a fact of life).
2. Bandwidth-heavy applications like Netflix enter the market.
3. Comcast's customers start using these bandwidth-heavy applications
and suck in more data than Comcast was betting on.
4. Comcast has to upgrade connectivity, e.g. at peering points with
the heavy inbound traffic sources, accordingly in order to satisfy
their customers' usage.

You may be new here, but I'm not, and I read it exactly the same way.

How is this *not* Comcast's problem? If my users are requesting more
traffic than I banked on, how is it not my responsibility to ensure I
have capacity to handle that? I have gear; you have gear. I upgrade or
add ports on my side; you upgrade or add ports on your side. Am I
missing something?

It is absolutely the problem of the eyeball carrier who gambled on a
given oversubscription ratio and discovered that it's called gambling
because sometimes, you lose.

Cheers,
-- jra

And the answer is: at whose instance (to use an old Bell term) is that
traffic moving.

The answer is "at the instance of the eyeball's customers".

So there's no call for the eyeball to charge the provider for it.

Cheers,
-- jra

Beyond that, there’s a more subtle argument also going on about whether
$EYEBALL_PROVIDER can provide favorable network access to $CONTENT_A
and less favorable network access to $CONTENT_B as a method for encouraging
subscribers to select $CONTENT_A over $CONTENT_B by affecting the relative
performance.

This becomes much stickier when you face the reality that in many places,
$EYEBALL_PROVIDER has an effective monopoly as the only player choosing
to offer services at a useful level of bandwidth/etc. (If that).

Owen

Well, that's a metaphorical use of "fast lane" which is fine but I
think the PR spin by CNBC was to actually give listeners the
impression that they'd get faster service (e.g., on streaming video)
now that this nasty FCC rule was out of the way.

If the carriers now get to play packet favoritism and pay-for-play, they should lose common carrier protections.

-Dan

Isn't this all predicated that our crappy last mile providers continue with their crappy last mile
service that is shameful for a supposed first world country?

Cue up Randy on why this is all such a painful joke.

Mike