I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it
might be of interest to this community:
http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/
- - ferg
I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure
it might be of interest to this community:
Good god. If there is even the mention of a LEC bailout, I am going to go insane and probably shoot someone (those who know me know this is a actual possibility).
If the phone companies had actually focused on providing good, competitive service, this would have never happened. Instead, they spent money and time on figuring out ways to screw with their competition, and have legislation passed that protects them.
People (at least the ones I know) are fed up with dealing with these companies, and many people I know don't have land lines and never intend on having them again.
Let them collapse. It's good for them, us, and the capitalist in you and me. Go buy a cell phone, and have a coke.
That makes two of us...
Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are
providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people
call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential
realm going with VOIP offerings...
-Mike
That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I
have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something
were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the
power was out, or the Internet connectivity was flaking out.
2.) 911 would function exactly the way it is supposed to, and
not be routed to some 3rd party call center which could potentially
delay a response.
I haven't found the power to be reliable, and the cable Internet
tends to go down when the power goes out. There's always cellular,
but then you have to depend on there being someone with a cell phone
around to make the call, and my kids aren't to the age yet that I
would want them toting around their own cell phones. As long as
my POTS line is more reliable than VoIP, I'll probably keep it.
-Russell
That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I
have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something
were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the
power was out, or the Internet connectivity was flaking out.
2.) 911 would function exactly the way it is supposed to, and
not be routed to some 3rd party call center which could potentially
delay a response.I haven't found the power to be reliable, and the cable Internet
tends to go down when the power goes out. There's always cellular,
but then you have to depend on there being someone with a cell phone
Also, where I live, if the power goes out hard (for example, during the last Hurricane),
the cell phone will not have service either.
Regards
Marshall
With one provider in Canada at least, the E911 address to phone number
registration is a large bureaucratic manual process, likely involving
fax machines.
Meanwhile, the ILEC presumably has an address in a database for the
loop...
So, I wonder about more direct access to PSAPs by CLEC, anywhere from
dark fibre to database API?
In the past, an inactive cell phone could still dial 911. I'm not sure
if that's still the case, but it used to be, at least with some
carriers.
Chuck
I believe there is a law that requires just that, even if you don't have an
active service plan the phone must still be able to access 911.
Josh
Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <fergdawgster@gmail.com> said:
I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it
might be of interest to this community:
One thing doesn't make sense in that article: it talks about POTS being
subsidized by other services, and people cutting POTS lines. Wouldn't
that be _good_ for the companies and their other services? The way the
article describes things, fewer POTS lines = smaller subsidies taken
from other services = better profits for other services and the company.
I would agree on that, my voip setup at my house took several faxes back and forth to the provider to get it working right. Then it took a week for the 911 dispatch center to actually see my address as correct when I placed test calls.
Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <fergdawgster@gmail.com> said:
I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it
might be of interest to this community:http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/
One thing doesn't make sense in that article: it talks about POTS being
subsidized by other services, and people cutting POTS lines. Wouldn't
that be _good_ for the companies and their other services? The way the
article describes things, fewer POTS lines = smaller subsidies taken
from other services = better profits for other services and the company.
the lines are still there and still require maintenance so they loose money on it.
A Marine VHF works under almost any circumstances, and anywhere coastal
in the world. You can almost always reach the Coast Guard.
If they had made any decent investment in plant, or had not run the DSL
CLECs out of business, they could make money on DSL and Video services,
or by leasing the unused copper.
There's no sympathy for companies that have been nothing more than
obstacles to progress.
From: William Warren
[mailto:hescominsoon@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:02 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse?Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <fergdawgster@gmail.com> said:
I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I
figure it
might be of interest to this community:
One thing doesn't make sense in that article: it talks about POTS
being
subsidized by other services, and people cutting POTS lines.
Wouldn't
With GSM phones you don't even need a SIM in the phone to call 911 (and equivalent numbers in other regions).
I have two children at home, and I haven't had dial-tone on copper for years. I don't lose any sleep over it; that's just one of a thousand highly-improbable disasters that could happen, albeit one that apparently enjoys better marketing than some.
If I *was* concerned, I think I'd buy a cheap GSM handset with no SIM and leave it chained somewhere the kids could find, plugged in.
I seem to remember when I *did* have dial-tone from Bell Canada I'd pick up the handset and get dead air a disturbing proportion of the time. The idea that copper wire-line providers are the only ones who can provide stable telephony doesn't ring true, for me. There's a reason why the five nines don't include the last mile.
Joe
Well put Joe...
I haven't had a landline in quite a bit neither and rely on VOIP today.
This doesn't mean that it's never gone down but for the few times it
ever has it has never worried me.
There's at least two cell phones in our house whenever the family is
home and I have neighbors within quick walking distance.
What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours.
This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and
many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the
site will go down and you'll have no cell or landline anyways. This is
purely geographically related as the larger centers have generators
attached - one could argue that portable generators would be used to
keep these battery sites up but in a large scale outage lasting more
than 8 hours I don't know a company out there that has enough portable
generators to keep ALL their sites up.
Have I seen my cell go down in a power outage? Yes
Have I seen my landline go down in a power outage when I had them? Yes
Take care,
Paul
Once upon a time, Paul Stewart <pstewart@nexicomgroup.net> said:
What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours.
This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and
many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the
site will go down and you'll have no cell or landline anyways.
The AT&T (BellSouth) remotes around here installed in the last 10 years
or so typically have natural gas generators installed, and the COs have
a pair of generators for redundancy. Even many of the cell towers have
generators. The telco infrastructure is pretty well backed up (I don't
know how well tested any of it is of course).
On the other hand, it appears that the cable infrastructure doesn't even
all have batteries (I know some people whose cable voice and data
services blink with the power).
Joe Abley wrote:
I seem to remember when I *did* have dial-tone from Bell Canada I'd pick
up the handset and get dead air a disturbing proportion of the time. The
idea that copper wire-line providers are the only ones who can provide
stable telephony doesn't ring true, for me. There's a reason why the
five nines don't include the last mile.Joe
Obviously experiences differ. I for one can't remember a single time
I've picked up a POTS line and there not be a dial tone. This with
living in several different cities along the East Coast. I find it
significantly harder for a VOIP service to "guarantee" availability than
a traditional POTS service. And for E911 any increased level of
guarantee is better.
However, for me it is increasingly more frequent that cell calls don't
complete on the first try, or there are "bad zones" either at home or at
work where having a conversation is impossible. Not a huge issue for
normal phone calls but in an emergency who wants to be finding that
special place where service is clear and the 911 operator can hear you.
Personally I'll keep a POTS line in the home, if for nothing more than
emergencies, until VOIP and Cell providers can consistently offer the
same level of services I've had with a traditional phone.
Regards,
Chris
Paul Stewart wrote:
There's at least two cell phones in our house whenever the family is
home and I have neighbors within quick walking distance.
That's assuming they're not doing the same thing you are, are home, or
are willing to let you borrow their phone. You're assuming a lot. I find
it surprising that many people replying haven't kept a 911 only POTS line.
Regards,
Chris
Solar is civil defence - that goes for Node Bs as well as citizens.
In the UK, I have absolutely no confidence in the reliability of our major
cable op, because everywhere I go I find their street cabinets broken into,
presumably by scum looking for copper (how long will they take to respond to
the precipitous drop in metal prices?), which this being DOCSIS it doesn't
contain. The BT ones, which are full of copper, seem to be more robust.
The AT&T (BellSouth) remotes around here installed in the last 10 years
or so typically have natural gas generators installed, and the COs have
a pair of generators for redundancy. Even many of the cell towers have
generators. The telco infrastructure is pretty well backed up (I don't
know how well tested any of it is of course).On the other hand, it appears that the cable infrastructure doesn't even
all have batteries (I know some people whose cable voice and data
services blink with the power).
Yes. In my neck of the woods, there have been a countable number of times in the last few years where when you pick up Vzn POTS, you don't get dial tone. Cellular tends to work well. At least, when combined with Glock, I feel safe enough to rely on it for home safety issue (E911).