[..]
Seriously Gadi, what *possible* relevence could this have to network
operations?
that, and a thread where half of the posts are from the
initial poster himself anyway. but then, happily watching
him, at least he is creative in topics... i am mentally
killfilling his threads anyway, less and less relevant.
it is scary what stuff is discussed lately.
-ako
For assistance with Microsoft security issues in the US, call (866) PC-SAFETY
If your Microsoft systems have been affected by a virus and you need help, you can get free virus-related assistance from Microsoft in the United States and Canada via a toll-free support hot line, (866) PC-SAFETY (727-2338). For support outside the United States and Canada, please contact your Microsoft Help and Support worldwide.
i've
assumed that the hardcore bgp engineering community now meets elsewhere.
Or perhaps BGP engineering hasn't changed in so many years
that it is now more than adequately covered by books,
certificate courses, and internal sharing of expertise.
Lists are good for things that are new or confusing or
difficult. BGP no longer fits into those categories.
(c) the flames completely outweigh gadi's own original posts,
Words of wisdom. I was wondering when someone
would point this out.
and (d) some of
the folks lurking here actually tell me that they benefit from gadi's
stuff.
And, no doubt, they tell Gadi too which is why he
continues to post on this list and does not seem to
be wounded by the flaming arrows sent his way.
ISC Training! October 16-20, 2006, in the San Francisco Bay Area,
covering topics from DNS to DHCP. Email training@isc.org.
Now that is on topic. Maybe we need more advertising
on the list to make people happy?
--Michael Dillon
that, and a thread where half of the posts are from the
initial poster himself anyway. but then, happily watching
him, at least he is creative in topics... i am mentally
killfilling his threads anyway, less and less relevant.
it is scary what stuff is discussed lately.-ako
OK, Alexander Koch. You apparently have clue and you
apparently know what *IS* on topic for this mailing
list. Instead of posting an off-topic message like
the one above, kindly post a message listing *ALL*
of the topics that belong on this list.
And if anyone else here thinks they know what is
on topic, please tell us.
I am getting bored by the flood of negative messages
that say only "You can't say that here". Please stop
telling us what you cannot say on NANOG. If you really
must register your discontent with a message, then
at least take the time to list some of the topics that
belong on the list.
What is NANOG all about? What is relevant to network
operations? Is NANOG a narrowly focused technical list
for a small group of technical specialists? Or is it
some kind of broader industry-focused list that covers
many issues relevant to the industry?
--Michael Dillon
To the people who say we throw in the towel and just say "Gadi will
never
stop posting off-topic crap, so why bother trying to correct him?", I'd
suggest that this is a self-defeating attitude. Not only because Gadi
could actually be posting useful stuff if set on the right path as to
what
is appropriate and what is not, but because 10,000 other people are
going
to be reading that post and thinking that this is appropriate subject
matter. One off-topic post you can delete, but an entire list which has
been co-opted by off-topic material can not be fixed.
I agree with you 100%. Please give us your list of *ALL*
the topics that you think are appropriate for this list.
--Michael Dillon
P.S. Note that I do not agree that anyone has yet tried
to "correct" Gadi. All I have seen is bellyaching on a
personal level, i.e. person A does not like person B's message.
To set everyone on the right path we need a description
of the path itself.
Well said. He can't respond right now, his computer has been infected.
P.S. Note that I do not agree that anyone has yet tried
to "correct" Gadi.
i guess what i've found most bemusing about this whole thread is -- i went
looking for the first email Gadi posted.
turns out that his posting habits have convinced Outlook that his email is
junk - and _all_ of his posts are in the "Junk EMail" folder.
i was bemused. jury is out of Outlook is showing self-intelligence or not!
cheers,
lincoln.
Could we please close this thread now? I believe it is well off-topic.
Thank you
It is pretty simple, really. These are examples of the topics that are on-topic.
1. "that posting is off-topic".
2. "somebody with clue from ${SmallUnknownOperator} (e.g. AOL) please contact me off list about a connectivity issue.:
3. "that posting is terribly off-topic".
4. "anybody know where I can get a free 300-baud dialup in ${Major_City_with_Wiffies_Everywhere}
5. "Since when is NANOG about ${some-non-BGP-operational-issue}"
6. "Somebody left their nerd-pack in the meeting room for ${obscure_NANOG_topic"
Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
Unless we're ready to admit that NANOG is completely and totally worthless as a forum for discussing network operations, people NEED to step up and take responsibility for the "self policing" that we're all supposed to be doing in srh's absence.
I think you meant to say the "self policing" the mailing list committee has been begging for.
srh (or any chunk of Merit, per se) != mailing list administration panel
Let's embrace the reform movement, and let NANOG be NANOG, albeit with a lot more taste and a lot less filler.
pt
Or perhaps BGP engineering hasn't changed in so many years
that it is now more than adequately covered by books,
certificate courses, and internal sharing of expertise.
Lists are good for things that are new or confusing or
difficult. BGP no longer fits into those categories.
In other words, this should be a focussed, low volume list.
> and (d) some of
> the folks lurking here actually tell me that they benefit from gadi's
stuff.And, no doubt, they tell Gadi too which is why he
continues to post on this list and does not seem to
be wounded by the flaming arrows sent his way.
In other words, the some people think that the goal of a mailing list
should be to keep a minimum volume of email going through it rather
than keeping it focussed and useful.
sean@donelan.com (Sean Donelan) writes:
For assistance with Microsoft security issues in the US, call (866) PC-SAFETY
according to http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2019162,00.asp, microsoft has
not released a patch for the VML thing, so calling (866) PC-SAFETY isn't going
to be a universal fix (and who will $user call after that, we wonder?)
according to http://www.websense.com/securitylabs/alerts/alert.php?AlertID=628,
there is now malware-in-the-field that exploits the VML thing. and according
to http://www.auscert.org.au/render.html?it=6771, there's already phishing.
last but not least, according to http://isotf.org/zert/ there is a non-MSFT
patch for the VML thing. i don't expect ISP's to recommend its use, due to
liability reasons, but mentioning it or even proactively notifying about it
might be a way to get people off the phone (or keep them from calling in).
(i'll remove the ISC training ad from my .signature for this post, since i've
gone way over my NANOG quota here -- three messages in 24 hours, oops.)
It is pretty simple, really. These are examples of the topics that are
on-topic.1. "that posting is off-topic".
2. "somebody with clue from ${SmallUnknownOperator} (e.g. AOL) please
contact me off list about a connectivity issue.:
Now that we're firmly into offtopic territory -
http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/thread_patterns.html
Here's how to subscribe to mailing lists with a combined total posts
of 2000 or more per day, and live. It's all about pattern recognition.
[snip]
Once again, ONE arguably off-topic post, followed by a non-stop stream
of DOZENS of messages, for days, by self-appointed listcops.
I'm sorry if the only thing which prompts you, and you know who you
are, to post is that little rush of self-righteous adrenaline upon
seeing a message you think is conceivably off-topic but resist the
urge and sit on your hands or only send it to your imagined
offender. It's a lot like shouting at the television set.
Or, better, if you see something off-topic, POST A MESSAGE YOU FEEL IS
ON-TOPIC, lead by example rather than by whining.
Few things energize us more than another's sin.
The largest residential ISPs, covering about 80% of the residential users of the Internet, also have an additional resource called GIAIS. GIAIS is a Microsoft supported group which gives ISP Operations, including help desks, a direct communications path with Microsoft. Microsoft makes the
same PC-SAFETY Help Desk information it uses internally to GIAIS member ISP Help Desks so customers gets consistent answers whoever the customer calls.
http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/resources/securitygiais.mspx
But more importantly GIAIS also provides a mechanism for ISPs to keep
Microsoft up to date on the real-world situation. How many customers are
being impacted, how many customers are calling ISP help desks with a
particular security incidents, etc. By exchanging hard data through the GIAIS program, if necessary with appropriate non-disclosure agreements in place, ISPs can help Microsoft decide when to release accelerated patches or improved work-arounds until a patch is available.
Unfortunately, Internet blogs and mailing lists are sometimes dominated by a few personalities that may be well-meaning, don't always have a good handle on relevant measurement data.
Although computer professionals may understand the nuances, its probably better to keep the general message as simple as possible. For example, don't eat fresh spinach products. Its difficult enough to get residential users to patch their computers at all, let alone to evaluate third-party patches or phishers distributing fake patches.
The simple message:
For unmanaged Microsoft Windows computers, i.e. most home computers,
turn on Automatic Windows Update. When this patch is available, your
computer will get the patch directly from Microsoft; as well as future
patches.
Computer professionals should also review the relevant Microsoft security
advisories and may evaluate whether third-party solutions are appropriate
for their computer environment.