Vince Wolodkin supposedly said:
Paul A Vixie wrote:
> > P.S. Keep in mind that a Root Name Server Confederation is
> > a collection of Root Name Servers. The new ISI/NSI confederation
> > that is being built just moved one of its nameservers to the
> > control of RIPE and it is located in London, England.
> there are some root name servers.
> then there are some pirates who are trying to coin the "confederation" term.
I realize your exasperation with certain elements that have arisen in
this "new age" of the internet. Many of them ARE in it for the money.
Of course, you realize, that this was bound to happen. Any successful
non-profit venture will ultimately have people trying to make money off
of it. It's not illegal, though piracy is.
While you disagree with the "confederation" ideas that Mr. Fleming
espouses, calling he and others pirates is rather ridiculous. If you
were involved in an IETF proceeding and someone presented an alternate
idea, would you call them pirates?
Paul can certainly speak for himself, but I think the issue that most
people (myself included) have is that these people refuse to work within
the IETF process. If they want to change things and follow the procedure
that everyone else has used for years then great, let them try and convince
people of the validity of their ideas.
If, on the other hand, they refuse to work within the well established
system and go off into a corner and make grand declarations and try and
fracture the "rough consensus" model that has kept the net operating for
years, then they are indeed pirates. I would like to point out that going
through the IETF process does not mean your ideas will be accepted. More
ideas and plans are rejected than are accepted.
It's time you faced it, though you and others may have put a great deal
of work into building what the internet has become, so have many
others. It doesn't mean that it belongs to you. It doesn't mean that
people who are trying to build something now are pirates.
The grandstanders have chosen to work outside of the IETF process and are
trying to build something. There are a couple of reasons why they could
want to do it that way:
1. They are impatient and don't want to work through established channels.
2. They don't believe working through the established channels is
3. They have tried and their ideas were rejected.
If 1. then they need to learn some patients and cooperation.
If 2. then we disagree and will not agree for the forseeable future.
If 3. then either:
a) they were right and everyone else was wrong and in a few months or
years it will be clear.
b) they have some other motive, whether it be greed or glory or power or
something else I don't know.
If a) then we will have to see.
If b) which is what I suspect, then I don't repect the motives and once
again I doubt we will agree anytime in the future.
I really can't tell why you are so upset about all of this. I am
guessing that you don't want to see the internet fall to ruins because a
bunch of newcomers with "radical" ideas want to change things. You may
even be a little bit afraid that some of them might succeed. But why is
their input LESS valuable than yours, and who are you to make this
All people who come to the IETF, come as individuals and their opinions
start out counting the same. As with all things, your actions and words
over the years tend to add or subtract to the value people place on them.
People tend to respect people who have made positive contributions or have
strong technical arguements, and ignore people who make no contributions or
whose ideas lack technical merit.
I'll probably get flamed off the planet for siding with the
"interlopers", perhaps cries of "burn the witch" will follow me. Then
again, wasn't there a time when those who thought that the earth orbited
the sun killed for their blasphemy?
A completely pointless statement to your arguement. It is easy to label
yourself the martyr and how everyone else is wrong, but it doesn't win any
Take a good look in the mirror and decide, do you want to work with
others or do you want to dictate to others? Then please let us know, we
may need to ignore you in the future.
Paul and everyone else who does work in the IETF work constantly with
others to keep the Internet functioning. If you expect to work with people
then you need to step up and join the effort. The feeling I get is that
since you don't like the structure of the team you want to run off and form
your own team and call the other people antisocial for not abandoning the
current process and embracing yours.
If you want to effect change then step up and try to do it legitimately
instead of trying to do it with press releases. Even Microsoft tried to
bully the IETF process and had tough times because of it. Now they send
numerous people to the IETF and contribute to the effort.