Root Name Server Confederations

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1

Even though some people do not think they exist...

...Here are the various Root Name Server Confederations
that ISPs can choose between. ISPs should only choose
one Confederation. Mixing and matching servers from each
Confederation is not recommended.

choosing any root name servers other than the 25-year-old IANA set
is guaranteed to cost an ISP money in unnecessary tech support and
bad public relations.

there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set
of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming
who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.

Also, ISPs should become more familiar with where
the following servers are located relative to your servers.
There are many network tools which can help you make
this assessment.

there is no such choice. there is one set of root name servers and
if you don't use it the universe will garbage collect you and your
customers and your capital assets since you were clearly not destined
to survive.

AlterNIC - http://www.alternic.net

....204.94.42.2......ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET.
....204.94.43.1......NS1.BELFAIR.NET.
....204.94.42.1......MX.ALTERNIC.NET.
....207.51.48.15.....NYC.ALTERNIC.NET.
....204.182.105.150..EEK.HTTPD.COM.

money-grabbing fools.

eDNS - http://www.edns.net

....205.164.53.250...a-root.edns.net.
....207.32.128.64....b-root.edns.net.
....207.134.7.5......c-root.edns.net.
....208.1.127.5......d-root.edns.net.
....207.114.179.21...e-root.edns.net.

power-grabbing thieves.

InterNIC - http://www.internic.net

....198.41.0.4.......NS.INTERNIC.NET
....128.63.2.53......AOS.ARL.ARMY.MIL
....192.203.230.10...NS.NASA.GOV
....192.112.36.4.....NS.NIC.DDN.MIL
....128.9.0.107......NS1.ISI.EDU
....128.8.10.90......TERP.UMD.EDU
....192.33.4.12......C.PSI.NET
....192.5.5.241......NS.ISC.ORG
....192.36.148.17....NIC.NORDU.NET

actual root name servers, but by their old names.

name.space - http://www.pgpmedia.com

....209.48.2.11.....root.autono.net
....205.160.45.177..root1.autono.net
....209.48.2.20.....root2.autono.net
....194.109.3.125...root3.autono.net
....194.136.192.40..root4.autono.net
....193.2.132.70....root5.autono.net
....193.97.251.80...root6.autono.net
....209.48.2.40.....root7.autono.net
....204.141.84.82...root8.autono.net
....194.109.21.20...root9.autono.net
....206.86.247.30...root10.autono.net
....209.48.2.5......root11.autono.net

money-grabbing thieves.

NSI/ISI/RIPE - http://www.netsol.com

....198.41.0.10....J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
....193.0.14.129...K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
....198.32.64.12...L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
....198.32.65.12...M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.

more actual root name servers.

2

> Even though some people do not think they exist...
>
> ...Here are the various Root Name Server Confederations
> that ISPs can choose between. ISPs should only choose
> one Confederation. Mixing and matching servers from each
> Confederation is not recommended.

choosing any root name servers other than the 25-year-old IANA set
is guaranteed to cost an ISP money in unnecessary tech support and
bad public relations.

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations
internationally,

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set
of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming
who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.

Again, the eDNS root servers are operational and resolve, albeit on a
small percentage, are you willing to say this sytem does not work?

> Also, ISPs should become more familiar with where
> the following servers are located relative to your servers.
> There are many network tools which can help you make
> this assessment.

there is no such choice. there is one set of root name servers and
if you don't use it the universe will garbage collect you and your
customers and your capital assets since you were clearly not destined
to survive.

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

> AlterNIC - http://www.alternic.net
>
> ....204.94.42.2......ARAGORN.ALTERNIC.NET.
> ....204.94.43.1......NS1.BELFAIR.NET.
> ....204.94.42.1......MX.ALTERNIC.NET.
> ....207.51.48.15.....NYC.ALTERNIC.NET.
> ....204.182.105.150..EEK.HTTPD.COM.

money-grabbing fools.

> eDNS - http://www.edns.net
>
> ....205.164.53.250...a-root.edns.net.
> ....207.32.128.64....b-root.edns.net.
> ....207.134.7.5......c-root.edns.net.
> ....208.1.127.5......d-root.edns.net.
> ....207.114.179.21...e-root.edns.net.

Call us Robbin Hoods, we don't collect a salary for throwing accusations....

power-grabbing thieves.

> InterNIC - http://www.internic.net
>
> ....198.41.0.4.......NS.INTERNIC.NET
> ....128.63.2.53......AOS.ARL.ARMY.MIL
> ....192.203.230.10...NS.NASA.GOV
> ....192.112.36.4.....NS.NIC.DDN.MIL
> ....128.9.0.107......NS1.ISI.EDU
> ....128.8.10.90......TERP.UMD.EDU
> ....192.33.4.12......C.PSI.NET
> ....192.5.5.241......NS.ISC.ORG
> ....192.36.148.17....NIC.NORDU.NET

actual root name servers, but by their old names.

Still like challenging your paycheque?

> name.space - http://www.pgpmedia.com
>
> ....209.48.2.11.....root.autono.net
> ....205.160.45.177..root1.autono.net
> ....209.48.2.20.....root2.autono.net
> ....194.109.3.125...root3.autono.net
> ....194.136.192.40..root4.autono.net
> ....193.2.132.70....root5.autono.net
> ....193.97.251.80...root6.autono.net
> ....209.48.2.40.....root7.autono.net
> ....204.141.84.82...root8.autono.net
> ....194.109.21.20...root9.autono.net
> ....206.86.247.30...root10.autono.net
> ....209.48.2.5......root11.autono.net

money-grabbing thieves.

I should agree but they too are after what everyone wants....

> NSI/ISI/RIPE - http://www.netsol.com
>
> ....198.41.0.10....J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
> ....193.0.14.129...K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
> ....198.32.64.12...L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
> ....198.32.65.12...M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.

more actual root name servers.

Only because God, ahem.. you approve Paul.

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

Marc Hurst
SKYnic @ SKYSCAPE Communications Inc
Toronto Canada

3

>
> there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set
> of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming
> who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.

Again, the eDNS root servers are operational and resolve, albeit on a
small percentage, are you willing to say this sytem does not work?

their being operational makes them no less bogus. IANA says who answers
for "." and eDNS aint it.

>
> > Also, ISPs should become more familiar with where
> > the following servers are located relative to your servers.
> > There are many network tools which can help you make
> > this assessment.
>
> there is no such choice. there is one set of root name servers and
> if you don't use it the universe will garbage collect you and your
> customers and your capital assets since you were clearly not destined
> to survive.

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

not to be confused with the blatant malicious business interference
caused by attempting to forcibly splinter the "." domain.

what happens when there is disagreement in the eDNS community and someone
decides to break off and for Yet Another DNS Coalition? or are you
assuming such a thing will never happen?

Call us Robbin Hoods, we don't collect a salary for throwing accusations....

neither do i. eDNS is bound to produce nothing but confusion and headaches.

>
> actual root name servers, but by their old names.

Still like challenging your paycheque?

InterNIC may be questionable technically and ethically, but they are
blessed by IANA currently. that is important because it eliminates the
confusion and headaches of getting dozens of different organizations
around the world to agree all the time.

if there are multiple IANA blessed NICs, then so be it. they will
operate only as long as they follow the guidelines set down for them by a
higher authority with no financial stake in the game.

I should agree but they too are after what everyone wants....

everyone wants confusion and headaches?

Only because God, ahem.. you approve Paul.

you mean since everyone involved in nameserver issues does exactly what
paul says or is that simple hyperbole to hide the lack of facts in your
argument?

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

yes, i'm sure there will be no legal action when there are 5 different
.web domains that refuse to cooperate with each other.

b3n

4

> >
> > there are not multiple sets of root name servers. there is a set
> > of root name servers and a bunch of paranoid wierdos like jim fleming
> > who run servers who answer bogusly for "." and other domains.
>
> Again, the eDNS root servers are operational and resolve, albeit on a
> small percentage, are you willing to say this sytem does not work?
>

their being operational makes them no less bogus. IANA says who answers
for "." and eDNS aint it.

Not only is that restraint of trade, I would like to see you make that
defense stay in a court outside of the US.

5

On Tue, May 20, 1997 at 09:57:10PM -0400, Marc Hurst spewed forth:

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

[ . . . ]

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

[ . . . ]

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

  If threats and personal attacks are how eDNS does business, then
  it's no wonder that less than 0.01% of the hosts on the net are
  configured to resolve eDNS's TLD's.

  Far as I'm concerned, until you guys get 10%, you don't exist.

---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@cybernothing.org> =========---------
  > "The First Amendment was designed to protect offensive speech, |
  > because nobody ever tries to ban the other kind." |
  > -- Mike Godwin, staff counsel, EFF |
----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----

6

  Far as I'm concerned, until you guys get 10%, you don't exist.

if they have 50% and no IANA blessing they don't exist. but neither of
those is going to happen.

this will all result in lots of wasted money and the acceleration of the
disapperance of many small ISPs. there is a reason UUNet, MCI, Sprint,
and the rest of the big boys haven't started running eDNS servers and it
isn't because they don't want the money. it's because eDNS is hideously
unwise and destructive.

b3n

7

On Tue, May 20, 1997 at 09:57:10PM -0400, Marc Hurst spewed forth:

> are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?
[ . . . ]
> At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...
[ . . . ]
> I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
> worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

  If threats and personal attacks are how eDNS does business, then
  it's no wonder that less than 0.01% of the hosts on the net are
  configured to resolve eDNS's TLD's.

  Far as I'm concerned, until you guys get 10%, you don't exist.

Your observation would be correct if you read it as a threat, however it
is a challenge to the US miopic interests that plague the political
circles of the net.

8

not to be confused with the restraint of trade caused by TLD conflicts
among all the eDNS folk.

what happens if i decide to advertise 6.0.0.0/8 to the world? you think
everyone would applaud me for freeing IP address space from the tyranical
bonds of the evil IANA and its minion paul vixie, or would i be globally
shunned for an action so obviously counter to the effective
interoperation of all sections of the internet?

you are doing exactly the same thing and none of your sabre rattling or
name calling will change that.

b3n

9

Your observation would be correct if you read it as a threat, however it
is a challenge to the US miopic interests that plague the political
circles of the net.

those darned americans! they think just because they built the internet
and generally do their best to keep things running they have a right to
stop angelic foreigners like yourself from making a buck at the expense
of network stability and coherence.

i say we lynch them all! who's with me?

b3n

10

I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations
internationally,

are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

I am! Sue me, sue me! I'm a cabal (TINC) member as well, and I'll deny
it to my dying day!

At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

Yeah, and I'm a party to it. I've told all my friends what a moron you
are and that they'd be fools to do business with your mother. Not only
was it malicious, it was intentional!

Still like challenging your paycheque?

Yeah, I do. Why don't you come down to Dallas and challenge my paycheck
like a man. Still like being an asshole?

I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

I do, and I don't think you're man enough to follow through on that
threat.

Girlie man.

Wussie.

I admit publicly that I've colluded to exclude you from the DNS TINC
cabal, and you _still_ can't do anything about it.

Na-na-naa-na-naaaaa-na

Your mother's so fat, she can roll over a dollar bill and make four
quarters come out the other side.

And your breath smells, too.

11

> I have the ability and the resources to challenge your accusations
> internationally,
>
> are you willing to put your money and your job where your mouth are?

I am! Sue me, sue me! I'm a cabal (TINC) member as well, and I'll deny
it to my dying day!

Cool, someone who IS a gamer....

> At this point this is blatant, malicious business interference...

Yeah, and I'm a party to it. I've told all my friends what a moron you
are and that they'd be fools to do business with your mother. Not only
was it malicious, it was intentional!

FUCK YOU!!!
I hate it when people get rumours right... :slight_smile: hahaha

> Still like challenging your paycheque?

Yeah, I do. Why don't you come down to Dallas and challenge my paycheck
like a man. Still like being an asshole?

Hey, the fact that you are so challenging is refreshing. Your rhetoric is
personal (which is cool) and does not attack the merit of the opinion
(which is respectable).

I will have to air freight you a case of REAL Canadian brew, none of that
fake stuff - you are worthy of a toast...

> I have to wonder if you have the resources to defend yourself from
> worldwide allegations of collusion and racketeering?

I do, and I don't think you're man enough to follow through on that
threat.

I am man enough, but based on your candor beating you in court would be
no fun, besides it would not get me any furhter in the cause unless your
name was Vixie or Heath...

How about a drinking contest chicken shit.... Oh I forgot, you borrowed
your liver from your mother.... :wink:

> Girlie man.

Wussie.

I admit publicly that I've colluded to exclude you from the DNS TINC
cabal, and you _still_ can't do anything about it.

Bite me.....

Na-na-naa-na-naaaaa-na

Your mother's so fat, she can roll over a dollar bill and make four
quarters come out the other side.

Shows what you know..... obviously you haven't got it from her lateley
because normally she can make change for a ten..... wimp ---

And your breath smells, too.

It smelled better before I blew you you good ole southern boy...

__

Todd Graham Lewis

The previous exchange is not meant to offend by vulgarity....

I do expect well thought out clever flames in return....

12

Why not come up for a bbq.... I will go grab some moose...

13

do us all a favor, marc, and admit that you only support eDNS because you
hope to make a buck.

you hav eno interest in better serving your customers, enhancing the
stability of the internet, or any of the other ethical goals to which you
have alluded. you are only in it for the money.

and before you go slamming vix's motivations, why don't you check who
wrote the name service software you are writing.

b3n

14

No,

On the contrary.

I support eDNS because it is a good (not great) free market model. The
only domain I expect to recover costs on perhaps is ".sex". The only
people who will make money on domains already have.

It is kinda like finding a new playground without any real rules. Things
should be allowed to evolve. I cannot see any real value in people
signing up "yourname"@isp.z. Vanity is not an industry.

It is cute but it has more to do with soveriegn rights.

Really, I am not in it for the bucks cause it just is not there. I will
answer truthfully anyone who does not believe me.

This has more to do with internet and the future world goverance.

THINK ABOUT IT - - - ?

15

No,

On the contrary.

I support eDNS because it is a good (not great) free market model. The
only domain I expect to recover costs on perhaps is ".sex". The only
people who will make money on domains already have.

heck, why not have free market frequency band allocation? why not IP
address allocation? sometimes it is better NOT to have a free market
model. this is such a case.

were any of those 400 trademarks, patens, and copyrights issued by a
private organization, or by a single office in the US or canada?

It is kinda like finding a new playground without any real rules. Things
should be allowed to evolve. I cannot see any real value in people
signing up "yourname"@isp.z. Vanity is not an industry.

evolution is fine and the IAHC and IANA were and are addressing these
issues. unconstrained evolution in this case is bad because people
depend on the stability of global naming. why is that so difficult to see?

It is cute but it has more to do with soveriegn rights.

Really, I am not in it for the bucks cause it just is not there. I will
answer truthfully anyone who does not believe me.

this is either tremendous ignorance or tremendous bullshit. this much
time and effort would not be invested if there were not a big payoff.

This has more to do with internet and the future world goverance.

so you are an anarchist?

THINK ABOUT IT - - - ?

i am. now you try.

16

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        [^^^^^^^^^^^^^] [^^^^^^^^^^]
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With "unique technologies" like "multi-homing" who knows what powers he
may have that he hasn't disclosed.

\w0zz

17

I ever said my marketing people had a fucking clue......

That I will admit to...

18

what happens when there is disagreement in the eDNS community and someone
decides to break off and for Yet Another DNS Coalition? or are you
assuming such a thing will never happen?

It has already happened. The Alternic has broken off from the eDNS
community and no longer recognizes their TLDs. And name.space never did
join the eDNS community and has always had TLDs that conflict with eDNS.
Now Karl Denninger has imposed some new rules on eDNS to place limits on
people who are trying to create more than 10 new TLDs. The universe in a
microcosm...

In any event, the US government seems quite happy to let the 114
signatories of the gTLD MoU work things out even though eDNS supporters
have vigorously lobbied for US government intervention.

if there are multiple IANA blessed NICs, then so be it. they will
operate only as long as they follow the guidelines set down for them by a
higher authority with no financial stake in the game.

                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
An important point that so many people seem to miss.

Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com

The bottom line is track record. Not track tearing. Not track derailing.
But pounding the damn dirt around the track with the rest of us worms.
       -- Randy Bush

19

> what happens when there is disagreement in the eDNS community and someone
> decides to break off and for Yet Another DNS Coalition? or are you
> assuming such a thing will never happen?

It has already happened. The Alternic has broken off from the eDNS
community and no longer recognizes their TLDs. And name.space never did
join the eDNS community and has always had TLDs that conflict with eDNS.
Now Karl Denninger has imposed some new rules on eDNS to place limits on
people who are trying to create more than 10 new TLDs. The universe in a
microcosm...

Interesting assumption when the ALTERNICS' single biggest creditor is an
eDNS Regisratation Authority....

Liability issues???

20

"Myopic"? Think more along the lines of "hegemonic". It's easy to ignore
the rest of the world when the rest of the world doesn't matter.

I would add a generic insult to Canada here, but Sean Doran's presence in
this forum saved your worthless ass on that count.