This!
There are many threads on here I don't find useful after 2 posts. So I'll just gloss over new posts on that thread (if not outright ignore them) until I hit a new topic in the hopes of some meat.
That's far easier than me e-mailing about why a post had no place on the list.
Like, unless someone is posting about kitchen recipes or bee keeping, it's not that deep.
Mark.
Speaking of "this thread's starter" -- unless I've lost track of the thread here completely haha -- this all got started because one infrequent poster decided that he had to be Hall Monitor(tm) and chide others about List Etiquette(tm)
My personal solution to that Hall Monitor remains the same as it's been for $very_long_time
Thunderbird Email --> Message Filters --> Select Filter "NANOG"
Thunderbird Email --> Message Filters "NANOG" --> add Hall Monitor
Thunderbird Email --> Message Filters "NANOG" --> add offending thread subject
Thunderbird Email --> [select Folder "NANOG"]
Thunderbird Email --> Tools --> Run Filters on Folder
**poof**
I'm sure those who are more cunning can figure out something with procmail and mutt and all, but I'm older now and more ... gooey...
- John
That seems like a reasonable proposal. NANOG-OffTopic, NANOG-Discuss, NANOG-BizDev, NANOG-xyz, something (more more than one something).
The other lists still wouldn’t allow promotion, but you could make inquiries and discuss things that don’t involve enable or configure.
The NANOG list seems to be leveraging Mailman, which does support topics.
The topic feature allows you to subscribe to individual topics that you're interested in and specify if you want to receive messages that don't match any possible configured topic or not.
There is a relatively simple method to scan incoming messages and auto-populate the header that Mailman is looking at to determine topics so that people do not need to remember to set them.
I have had good luck with this methodology in the past. I would suggest trying it before splintering off to multiple NANOG subsidiary lists.
Other than that, I support a NANOG-Discuss list so that NANOG (announcement / broadcast) list has a higher operations SNR.
But topics. I believe they are an under utilized feature of Mailman.
This is one of the reasons that I really prefer the dynamic topic detection. If messages in a thread no longer have the necessary key words which define a topic, Mailman doesn't consider it to be part of that topic. If a different thread veers into a topic and has the necessary key words which define the other topic, Mailman considers it to be part of that other topic.
i do not find the volume or diversity on the nanog list problematic.
in fact, i suspect its diversity and openness are major factors in
it being the de facto global anything-ops list. perhaps we do not
need to fix that.
randy
The board has been thinking about enhancements to the NANOG list for a couple of years now, with the goal of creating a modern interface that the younger generation of engineers will be more comfortable using.
Those of you that have attended recent NANOG members meetings may recall that we are currently beta testing a new community interface called discourse as part of our NANOG modernization strategic initiative. If it proves out as the new interface, it will support multiple web-based forums, and each forum will feature a fully integrated two-way email interface. Once in full production, the existing general mailing list will be moved to the platform, and additional topics/mailing-lists will be created.
If you prefer to join a specific forum but continue to use email as you always have, that will be an option and there will be many new topic-specific mailing lists. Those that wish to use a more modern looking web-based interface for discussion can use that, or anyone can use a hybrid of the two methods in the same forum (email or web-based).
The beta is currently only open to board members, but we expect it to be opened for further beta testing and feedback later this year within the existing community.
Dave Siegel
NANOG board Vice-Chair
It appears that Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> said:
-=-=-=-=-=-
That seems like a reasonable proposal. NANOG-OffTopic, NANOG-Discuss, NANOG-BizDev, NANOG-xyz, something (more more than one something).
Having been around this barn a few times, I can promise you that won't work, because threads
will never stay on the appropriate list.
Mailman topics might work better but I've never seen a list that used them successfully.
For once, I'm with Randy. The volume from NANOG at its chattiest is not huge, and if you
have trouble keeping up with it, perhaps you could consider a better mail program.
R's,
John
Dave,
I am a regular discourse user these days. I have been a NANOG list participant for at least a quarter of a century. I find all the modern forums require examining multiple web pages and do not support gaining any historical perspective or assist in correlating various topics into a coherent gestalt. They also require waiting for all the embellishments and formatting which html users prize as advantages, even when words, well reasoned or hasty, would serve as well or better.
As you might surmise from the forgoing: IT AINT BROKE. DON’T FIX IT.
Pardon my shouting in my fervent expression of my opinion, but it is important that you hear and consider this.
+1 (or as much more as I can be credited for)
…Allen
+1 from the peanut gallery
Simple. As. That.
Mark.
Agreed. Don’t fix what isn’t broken.
Agreed. Don't fix what isn't broken.
ryuu.rg.net:/Users/randy> whois oldnog.org
GeekTools Whois Proxy v5.0.6 Ready.
Checking access for 162.195.241.81... ok.
Checking server [whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
Results:
NOT FOUND
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2021-03-20T20:51:13Z <<<
hmmm
randy
Absolutely. I hate those web based forums, they force me to do all
kinds of things that Email lists don't force me to do and the
interfaces between them are often clunky or don't work. Keep it
simple, please.
I find it interesting that every time a company harvests email
addresses from the list and starts sales calls, the pitchforks come
out right quick (even though it's a public mailing list, what do we
expect will happen?). But if an individual is running their business
off the list, that's acceptable and nothing should be done.
A large portion of these emails lately have contained some variation
of 'contact me off list'. How does that provide any benefit to the
community? Is anyone else in the community getting any information
about what providers may be on a pathway that would help them? They
are not.
The board has been thinking about enhancements to the NANOG list for a
couple of years now, with the goal of creating a modern interface that the
younger generation of engineers will be more comfortable using.
This isn't a valid goal. It's fine that some people can't handle mailing
lists -- but then they shouldn't be network engineers or system admins,
because (a) using mailing lists is a fundamental skill required in those
fields and (b) anyone can't master such a rudimentary task in relatively
short order really isn't equipped to be an engineer/admin. (Just like
someone who can't do binary arithmetic or grasp multi-step processes
shouldn't be an engineer/admin. This doesn't make them bad people,
it just makes them people who are unlikely to be successful in the field.)
Those of you that have attended recent NANOG members meetings may recall
that we are currently beta testing a new community interface called
discourse as part of our NANOG modernization strategic initiative.
Discourse is a MAJOR downgrade from the functionality of mailing lists.
Oh, it's shiny and pretty and all that, but it's not a good tool for
serious professional or even amateur communication. (And, of particular
interest to *this* list, it performs extremely poorly -- if at all --
when confronted with (a) network outages and congestion and (b) attacks
and abuse. Two of the *many* significant advantages of properly-run
mailing lists are that they continue to function plausibly well under
highly adverse conditions and that there are numerous, well-understood
tactical and strategic mechanisms for defending them.)
---rsk
My 2c on this is that, in my role as ISOC streammeister, it is frustrating that I have no way of notifying NOs when I have the occasional technical webcast, e.g. http://bit.ly/MANRSTechTalks
If discourse might permit that, then bring it on!
joly
This is how I’m viewing a lot of this too. It’s like the posts on stack exchange et al, Reddit, and various forums that are just closed with “fixed” and no details or follow up.
Kinda defeats the whole purpose of a mailing list with an archive since the same questions can come up again and again and no actual answers to the questions.