"Permanent" DST

While I thoroughly agree with item 1, I suggest that the seismic consequences of item 2 would not be favorable.

So to clarify/muddy the situation further… Time zones do not fall purely on the 15 degree lines on a globe. As such, the location of the sun overhead is locality specific within a timezone.

Don’t let the enemy of done win here. :wink:

WaPo has a been there done that item today.


Nah, not really a big deal. The transportation world has handled it just fine for Arizona, and previously, Indiana.

Heck, here’s where it gets real confusing.

Arizona does not observe DST as a state. However, freight railroads in Arizona DO. At least BNSF Railway does. So for a good chunk of the year, if you are involved with the railroad, you have to clarify if events are happening at 8 a.m. city time or 8 a.m. railroad time.

At least that’s how it was last time I was down there as a railroad contractor.


  1. Move every square inch of US territory 15 degrees to the east.

Mind if I ask where you got this? Nowhere can I find an article or bill referencing this specific point. This article references a Senate bill from March 9th 2021 that makes no mention of this point at all.


My understanding is that Russian time zones are one hour “east” of where they should be and that China, despite its size, is a single time zone. So this proposal isn’t unique. Whether it’s good is a different question…


Since the nominal (15 degree slice) boundary between Mountain and Pacific goes right through the Phoenix metro area, it sort of makes sense that Arizona would stay on the same time year round.


dedelman@iname.com (Dave) wrote:

Folks for most systems, this is a change to a single file. Not a really hard thing to accomplish


1 - I'm surprised anybody is running local timezones on their systems at all

2 - I like how american politics is capable of creating new problems; where
    did this bill come from in the first place? And who's lobbying?


Folks, for most, this change removes the twice yearly disruption of their circadian rhythm and consequent surge of accidents and injuries.

My timely recommendation, which also require change to a single file, is to stick to “standard” time year round making solar high noon closer to 12:00.


Wouldn’t that move Detroit into Lake Erie?

If Canada doesn't do the same thing at the same time, it'll be a
real hassle, dealing with a change from -8 to -7 crossing the
border between BC and WA, for instance. It has to be done
consistently throughout North America.

You must not have ever dealt with Indiana, where it was DST or not by
choice per county. It wasn't quite the cluster***k you'd think.

That is true but at present everything business related in BC has a clear expectation of being in the same time zone as WA/OR/CA, and AB matches US Mountain time.

Sure, but you imply that the proposed alternative=-going to permanent DST–is only a trivial change to, and it is not. It violates the international rule determining what your time zone should be based on what your longitude is.

That is not trivial.

What I don’t understand, is why change time, just change working hours.
I’m all for giving up the time change, but the standard should probably still be UTC offset.

If you work 9-5, change it to 10-6. Every company can post working hours on their website.
Obviously for most of us, it’s a moot point.

P.S. Anyone working at NIST or a similar org probably needs a raise for dealing with all the exceptions.

What does Arizona do since you’re saying all of N America has to be the same?

It has been bubbling under for some years-there are about I think it’s 10 or 11 states which have already passed state laws changing it, pending that the federal law blocking those be dropped-that’s the Uniform Time Act of 1966 if I have the title correct.

And to reply to somebody else his comment, the exceptions to the 15 degree rule which already exists already caused problems, so there isn’t any reason to believe that bumping this down to the state and local level won’t make things even more confusing.

I wonder how big the buffers in the Timezone Library are; is ADO on this list?

Wouldn’t that move Detroit into Lake Erie?

Not sure about your state, but in mine we’re mandated by law to have the new smoke/co2 detectors with 10-year sealed batteries in place by Jan 2023. I’m not sure I can even buy one locally that isn’t a 10-year.


I would say if something passes the United States Senate in our current political environment by unanimous consent (which this did) , I kinda feel like there won’t be a ton of issues with everybody figuring out how to line themselves up appropriately.

Probably worse for the people who border Indiana; we always wonder if we’re on the same time as who we’re dealing with, depending on where in Indiana the other person is.