NXDOMAIN data needed for survey

Mailman List Mirror (Read Only)
1

We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at raydemain@gmail.com.

Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a 10% recurring finders fee.

Ray

2

What company would this be for?

-M<

3

raydemain@gmail.com ("Ray Demain") writes:

We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.

We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as
possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you
provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it.
As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000
records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine
the value of your data please contact me at raydemain@gmail.com.

Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a
10% recurring finders fee.

thanks for clarifying my purpose in never collecting NXDOMAIN data in ISC
SIE (see <http://sie.isc.org/>). several folks told me i was out to lunch,
but now i've got <http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg06810.html>
to point at.

4

> We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.

your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting
business venture.

Doing a Google search with the keywords
pay nxdomain data
turns up some interesting information.

--Michael Dillon

5

A domain squatting company, presumably. The same pseudonym has been
trolling web hosting forums to buy the same data today.

He's Marlon Phillips, marlon@mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which
particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.

Cheers,
   Steve

6

What's even more interesting is that googling Ray Demain shows nothing,
except this message.

I'd say that M. Demain does not exist, and his money will be as real as
his on-line presence.

I always love commissions promised from entities whose revenues you
can't audit.

Never mind that the purpose of this is, most likely, to register domains
as link-farms.

I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

7

Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for
others historical reference.

-M<

8

where does mapcom.net go? bizland.net ... registered through verisign
and hosted at ipowerweb? Their website (www.mapcom.net) has a
sedo-parking park-page, perhaps marlon works for sedoparking?

-Chris

9

Yeah, me too.

He's also apparently Mr Domain Investments LLC, Mr herbalclicks.com,
was typosquatting on a bunch of t-mobile domains until they took them
away from him -
http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-0919.html
- and was sued by Microsoft for sending CAN-SPAM violating spam to
hotmail users a couple of years back in the myauctionbiz.biz case -
http://spamkings.oreilly.com/MSFT-vs-Myauctionbizbiz.pdf .

I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
DNS logs to selling usernames too.

Cheers,
   Steve

10

[ snip ]

I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that
someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small
step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling
DNS logs to selling usernames too.

This is tip of the iceberg level activity. These people are exploiting
"unique identifiers" i.e. domains names and IP addresses. We need to
fear them, and respond appropriately. They are disruptive to the
Internet, to the users and commerce.

-M<

11

If anyone else is interesting in a concerted effort to provide
falsified data, I'm interested in helping and hosting.

12

I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.

How much are you charging?

-M<

13

[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

> I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make
> the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.

Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with
that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's
a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That
doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok
for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to.
Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates
unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.

now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to
say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our
recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what
our resolvers discover.

at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results
and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed.
note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can
configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.

now, on to what we do or could do with that data:

we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register
domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees
the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may
or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.

they get that data after we've transformed the original request into
their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and
relevant ads.

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already.
yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN.
  that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free.
yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place.
yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.

What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good
guys are actually good guys in that respect.

http://www.opendns.com/privacy/

it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.

-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering

p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless
     plug: <peering@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.

14

Bill,

Isn’t it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded Paxfire?

www.minorventures.com

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other, right?

Ray

15

Ray Demain wrote:

Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded Paxfire?

It might seem weird to you, but it's very common. Once VC has done the due diligence in a space they are more likely to invest in another company doing something in a related space, for better or worse.

OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other, right?

Your inference is unfounded.

-David Ulevitch

ps: End of this thread for me. It was dumb to begin with and despite the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote back to the guy offering to sell NXDOMAIN data. Giving it more airtime is a waste of bits.

16

What’s more funny is that googling “Ray Demain” only brings up lots of posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data.

What’s your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who funds that company?

Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and conspiracy, be up front about who you are, what you’re about, and what you plan on doing with the data.

17

[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]

[ snip ]

so, to recap:
nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.

I don't think that policy includes derivative works. If you are saying
that you don't sell any data at all, feel free to say that.

-M<