Just about all of the ISP's in my area, even those I've worked for, had
a 'disclaimer' on their user agreement that said that some of the local
phone numbers might be long distance and that the user should call the
operator to verify it is a local call before placing the call.
Is that warning enough, or are they saying the ISP must keep a database
of users' addresses and specifically warn that user that out of the 10
local call-in numbers, based on their zip code, these three (A, B, C)
could be long distance?
To quote the original pasted article:
Consumers, however, must act on the warning that Internet providers must
soon post by contacting their phone companies to find out whether a
number is truly local.
Many service providers already post such warnings. America Online Inc.
agreed to do so in 1989, while the New York Attorney General's Office in
2001 secured similar agreements with 25 New York-based Internet
providers including AT&T Worldnet.
Sounds like the standard notice that all reputable ISPs are probably
already giving. Given the very real potential for grandma and grandpa to
pick a number off a list which looks like it is in their area code and end
up with a multi-thousand dollar phone bill the next month, I'm surprised
consumer protection folks haven't asked for such a requirement sooner.
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
If we're making silly comparisons now, sure. Ordering Domino's from a long
distance number is not the kind of activity where an innocent and
unsuspecting person can accidentally run up thousands of dollars in
charges which they may know nothing about until the next month's phone
bill arrives, for something that they had a (semi)reasonable expectation
to be free.
Besides, I don't know if you've ever had the problem of living a block
away from where the magic cutoff line for delivery is, but you can barely
get those guys to deliver within evan a few miles let alone outside your
local calling region.
Is the NY AG authorized to regulate other-than "illegal" activity?
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza from
Domino's (you can also order from www.dominos.com) unless your really
indecisive. However, surfing the Internet, could take considerably longer
(especially for power-users like us).
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza from
Domino's (you can also order from www.dominos.com) unless your really
indecisive. However, surfing the Internet, could take considerably longer
(especially for power-users like us).
Sean,
I assume the NY AG will also be targeting enforcement of Domino's Pizza
because they have lots of phone numbers and consumers may unknowingly dial
a phone number to order a pizza which may be a toll call in their area.
Somehow I don't think so. It takes maybe 5 minutes to order a pizza from
Domino's (you can also order from www.dominos.com) unless your really
indecisive. However, surfing the Internet, could take considerably longer
(especially for power-users like us).
Well for starters, yes.
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/tour/tour.html
Note the Criminal Division and Division of Public Advocacy.
Another interesting link:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/internet/internet.html
But even ignoring that part for now, the only reference to the AG in the
article cited is that they secured an agreement with 25 large providers in
2001 to include a notice/disclaimer to consumers. Why am I the only person
who is capable of reading the article in question before commenting on
NANOG? 
Apologies on the triple post. Mea Culpa.
Those pennies can add up. And if you have ever called a government
office, you can sometimes spend a long time listening to music on
hold. Does the NY State Goverment warning citizens they may be charged
for phone calls to government offices?
This is one of those "feel good laws" that doesn't actually change
anything.
Those pennies can add up. And if you have ever called a government
office, you can sometimes spend a long time listening to music on
hold. Does the NY State Goverment warning citizens they may be charged
for phone calls to government offices?
I'm not sure if that's the same thing - since usually they are either local
offices (broken up by district within a city) or a toll free national number
to Albany or some other call center. As far as your "Those pennies can add
up" statement - I agree. But not to the same degree as an Internet surfer.
You would have to make ALOT of calls to Dominos in order to match up to an
Internet users bill.
As an aside, while I was travelling outside the US on my T-Mobile phone
(roaming), as soon as I landed in the airport and turned my phone on - I got
a text message from the local cell carrier saying that I can dial 611 and
123 just as if I was home. However, what they DON'T tell you is that your
going to be charged international roaming rates for that call - even if your
calling your home customer service. That's something that the NY AG should
go after, not this and at $3/min, it's a bigger nuiscance and a bigger bill
in a shorter ammount of time. Something definately doesn't smell right - oh,
and btw, that includes calls to the roaming carriers customer service
department too. Go figure.
This is one of those "feel good laws" that doesn't actually change
anything.
100% agreed - there's more pressing matters that needs to be taken care of
first.
(N.B. I'm actually a resident of New York State)
The difference between a call to Dominos pizza and browsing the Web is
that you usually don't make 200+ calls / month averaging 20 minutes in
length to order pizza. If you do, I think you have an eating disorder! 
A typical call to Domino's lasts < 2 minutes, and if
it's not actually a local call, you're almost
certainly not in the delivery area (and would get
redirected to the correct store). Accidentally
dialing a nonlocal Domino's results in a $.10 bill
(and no pizza).
A typical call to a dial-up ISP is what, a few hours?
Multiple times per month? Accidentally using a
non-local ISP number can result in a bill in the
hundreds of dollars pretty easily (also no pizza).
-David
David Barak
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise:
http://www.listentothefranchise.com
Hi,
To quote the original pasted article:
> Consumers, however, must act on the warning that Internet providers must
> soon post by contacting their phone companies to find out whether a
> number is truly local.
It used to be standard practice until last year that SBC (dial-up and DSL
provider here in this area, as well as the 'Bell' phone company) let you
look up dial-in numbers for 'your' local area code and exchange. However,
the results only came back without any numbers in your own area code,
just the ones from other area codes where they had dial-in numbers. If you
did not know how to work the system, you would be using one of the numbers
that are truly a toll call for you. And you'd pay to SBC-the_phone_company
to get to SBC-the_ISP because the ISP withheld the local numbers from you.
The way how to work the system was to enter another valid area code and
exchange, then look for dial-in numbers in your area code and finally
determine (e.g. by checking in the listing in the local phone book front
pages or by inquiring from the 'dial zero' operator) which of the numbers
are inside your toll free calling area.
Since then (I can't tell exactly when, because I only used this lookup
feature when I was about to travel out of town) SBC has changed this
practice and you can get all numbers listed from their search page at
http://sbcyahoo.prodigy.net/openPhone/ . Note the disclaimer explanations
right on that page "Long Distance Charges" and "Finding the Best Exchange
for You".
-andreas