I think "baggage time" is a hell of an opportunity to plant that
keysnatcher you always wanted on the target's machine.
Note "you" could be the Feebee's or the Beltway bandit bidding
against the target, or dissident BoD member or....
It's also a great time to plant some file that POOF the authorities
will decrypt & show it's kiddie porn. {Or just hide same in your
browser cache.} Do YOU know what every frigging file on your
machine is?
and here I was thinking: "Quick! buy stock in whole disk encryption
software makers!"
do you want to leave (banging around in baggage-monkey-land aside) your
laptop where it's going to be out of your hands for several hours like
that?
Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
one screw and 'pop' out comes all dell laptop harddrives... or boot from
cd, usb->copy all data, slide back into case and move on to next.
you have 2 hours between baggage arrival and load-plane time so you do the
math! 
Joseph S D Yao wrote:
Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
Let us say "No, they are not that hard to remove."
Now what? (Recall that this thread started with a situation where it was said that carry-on was limited to passport, medicine in small quantities, and precious little else.)
No, it is easy enough to remove laptop hard drives.
-Rusty
Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
one screw and 'pop' out comes all dell laptop harddrives... or boot from
cd, usb->copy all data, slide back into case and move on to next.you have 2 hours between baggage arrival and load-plane time so you do the
math!
I guess I mis-understood his intent. [1]
In any case, it occurred to me that in today's throw-away commodity computer world, why don't we return to those thrilling days of yesteryear where we expected the destination to have all the stuff we needed, pretty much? All the files on a central server (where, like the old central file room they will be safer) accessed from appliances installed everywhere like lights and telephones. Maybe give them a catchy name like "minitel" or something.
Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. (that is me) wrote:
Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
one screw and 'pop' out comes all dell laptop harddrives... or boot from
cd, usb->copy all data, slide back into case and move on to next.you have 2 hours between baggage arrival and load-plane time so you do the
math!I guess I mis-understood his intent. [1]
In any case, it occurred to me that in today's throw-away commodity computer world, why don't we return to those thrilling days of yesteryear where we expected the destination to have all the stuff we needed, pretty much? All the files on a central server (where, like the old central file room they will be safer) accessed from appliances installed everywhere like lights and telephones. Maybe give them a catchy name like "minitel" or something.
Forgot the footnote. Hate it when people do that!
[1] Only the (was first,now...) second mistake since dinner.
Christopher L. Morrow wrote:
>
>>Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
>
> one screw and 'pop' out comes all dell laptop harddrives... or boot from
> cd, usb->copy all data, slide back into case and move on to next.
>
> you have 2 hours between baggage arrival and load-plane time so you do the
> math!I guess I mis-understood his intent. [1]
not sure of his intent, but I know mine boot off cd, copy your HD, walk
away... I just know there is some juicy goo on Joe's laptop, he works for
OSIS! (I kid, of course)
In any case, it occurred to me that in today's throw-away commodity
computer world, why don't we return to those thrilling days of
yesteryear where we expected the destination to have all the stuff we
needed, pretty much? All the files on a central server (where, like the
you haven't had that discussion with an exec have you? I'd love to, my
laptops are, for all intents and purposes a ssh terminal... apparently
people need 'VPN access' and 'powerpoint' (is that what it's called??) and
what-not. I don't get it, but then again, I'm just a chemical engineer.
old central file room they will be safer) accessed from appliances
installed everywhere like lights and telephones. Maybe give them a
catchy name like "minitel" or something.
are you in marketting?
I had more in mind removing it from the laptop before someone else
could.
Joseph S D Yao wrote:
No, you were right about my intent. If you're flying from the States
you can carry this. Flying in the reverse direction is the problem -
this week. (The rules already changed, today; are we sure that disk
drives are still on the Index Proscriptus? What about RAM drives?)
You could also rush-express it ahead of you, but that's a bit of a
gamble. Less so if you encrypt it and keep a copy at home. Sort of
like faxing your disk drive ahead.
And, going along with what I think you later said, if you just leave the
laptop itself at home and stick the disk drive into an identical laptop
provided for that purpose at the destination, you could never tell the
difference.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Here's a thought.... most airlines offer expedited freight service (i.e.
Delta Dash). One could seal their lappy up in a box, mark it
accordingly, and ship to for hold at destination airport. Chances are
it will arrive before they do.
- -Jim P.
Joseph S D Yao wrote:
Joseph S D Yao wrote:
Do modern laptops have disk drives that are that hard to remove?
Let us say "No, they are not that hard to remove."
Now what? (Recall that this thread started with a situation where it
was said that carry-on was limited to passport, medicine in small
quantities, and precious little else.)No, you were right about my intent. If you're flying from the States
you can carry this. Flying in the reverse direction is the problem -
this week. (The rules already changed, today; are we sure that disk
drives are still on the Index Proscriptus? What about RAM drives?)You could also rush-express it ahead of you, but that's a bit of a
gamble. Less so if you encrypt it and keep a copy at home. Sort of
like faxing your disk drive ahead.And, going along with what I think you later said, if you just leave the
laptop itself at home and stick the disk drive into an identical laptop
provided for that purpose at the destination, you could never tell the
difference.
The fact of the matter is laptops get lost. Any business that depends on
information being carried around on laptops by employees of the
corporation needs to be prepared for that inevitability, and take steps
to insure that data is not compromised.
I have had three laptops stolen in the last five years, I feel this
threat acutely, but it doesn't change the fact that I have to carry a
laptop in order to fulfill my duties.
Fundamentally I don't see how changes in airline policy would have a
significant effect in the steps required to secure a laptop against
theft or tampering.
joelja
Because laptops are stolen / lost infrequently enough to allow replacement measures to be non-trivial. Just because IT can replace your laptop & its contents doesn't mean it's cheap, easy, quick, or even possible when you are overseas.
If I have to replace the laptop at the far end of every flight I take, the procedure must be essentially idiot proof and instantaneous. That requires a lot more time, effort, money, resources, etc.
Any laptop NOT using full disk encryption from the moment of boot-up
is begging for trouble. As has been pointed out many times, laptops
DO get lost, and not just in airline facilities.
This can be accomplished with just about any OS. Some require loading
an OS kernel first with a custom ramdisk or mini-partition to kick off
the encrypted disk driver; others can use off the shelf products
designed expressly for this purpose.
The only thing that bugs most people about full disk encryption is
that it often doesn't support "hibernation" -- but if the hardware has
a standby power save mode that is low enough on power consumption (S3
or similar), that shouldn't be a problem.
Do we all really believe this laptop ban will last? I sure don't.
Best Regards,
-Michael
Michael Nicks wrote:
Do we all really believe this laptop ban will last? I sure don't.
I think there are two issues in this thread -- this must refer to the air travel bans. I don't know, but I'll bet it not only persists, it will get worse.
The other issue has to do with the trend to thoughtlessly carry valuable data (which in many cases belongs to somebody who didn't get a say-so in its care) in laptops which are not protected.
Somehow somebody is going to do something draconian to get that under control.
Some other form of executive dick-waving is going to have to be developed that does not put so much at risk.
Why not put critical or proprietary files on a flash key? I carry a 4G flash key on my keyring. Airport security has never given it a second
look. If the laptop ends up in the hands of a sticky-fingered baggage handler (or the TSA), there’s nothing there for them to find.
And, to defeat the nosey customs folk who now want to login and rummage around your files when you enter the US, create a dummy
account and give them that login when they insist on inspecting your laptop for “child porn”. I’ve got nothing to hide, but I don’t want some
ham handed idiot accidently deleting stuff either…
Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications
joe@via.net
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax
joe mcguckin wrote:
Why not put critical or proprietary files on a flash key? I carry a 4G flash key on my keyring. Airport security has never given it a second
look. If the laptop ends up in the hands of a sticky-fingered baggage handler (or the TSA), there's nothing there for them to find.
Recent reports said you were allowed to carry passport, medicines required for the trip, and one or two other items that did not include any metallic objects as I recall.
And, to defeat the nosey customs folk who now want to login and rummage around your files when you enter the US, create a dummy
account and give them that login when they insist on inspecting your laptop for "child porn". I've got nothing to hide, but I don't want some
ham handed idiot accidently deleting stuff either...
I wonder what they are trained to look for.