I was referring to actual over-the-air broadcast television. Coaxial cable has been the de-facto transmission method for decades. Before that it was typically balanced 300-ohm twin-lead.
TiVo DVRs, USB SDR dongles, and, believe it or not, even television sets have coaxial inputs for this purpose. Coaxial cable transmission line is the most logical medium for getting the RF from the antenna to the receiver regardless of the nature of the receiver. In case of TiVo, and other devices without a display, once the signal is demodulated it's typically sent to the display via HDMI.
So, yes, run RG-6 to those locations where you anticipate putting a TV set. Run a stub-out in the attic as well.
The coax was part of the electricianâs standard build package, so it was no added cost for us to leave it in their spec. While weâre not using the coax today, itâs handy to have if needed. I terminated and tested the coax while I was doing the Cat7 and it didnât take me much extra time.
Thank you
jms
At worst, have conduits in the property.
Mark.
NDI or similar? I donât follow. Cable TV, Cable Internet and sat TV arenât distributed (to homes) using NDI, they use coax.
If I ever build the next house, Iâll ensure that Ethernet is installed just as extensively as electric wiring.
Hi Joel,
As others have noted: conduit is smarter. Communication cable
standards remain in a state of flux much more rapid than the lifetime
of a house and the little blue one-inch conduits are not exceptionally
expensive.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
And electricians (and the inspectors) understand
ENT(*) and it's installation requirements (yes
it still has physical securing requirements,
such as securing it near the box, and at
regular intervals along its run).
All in all, for a new construction, I would
require it all to be in ENT. But, of course,
a builder looks only at the lowest cost(s),
as (probably) 98% of the buyers only look
at how pretty the stainless steel appliances
look like in the kitchen (surprise, surprise,
those participating on the list are not the
normal house purchaser).
Gary
(*) Commonly called smurf tubing due to a
manufacturer's choice of blue, but it does
come in other colors, and I think technically
communications are supposed to be yellow
per the most recent NFPA 70 (aka NEC),
but I am absolutely too lazy to review the
latest regulations.
NEC wouldnât apply to telecommunications/low voltage. You may think yellow is common because of single mode fiber. Gray is far more common in the field in/on buildings. OSP is usually orange, because orange is the color for telecommunications/phone/internet. Gas plants use yellow markers/tracer.
Itâs a no-brainer. My house was built in the early 90âs, so no Ethernet at that time. I ran Ethernet to every room, some of it using STP through conduits crossing the roof to get across one end of the house to the other. It helped me avoid wireless extenders and meshing technologies. Mark.
In the EU at least you cannot do that, you can't use the same conduits
for data and power. But it's been in the code for a long time now to
have ethernet upon delivery, both CAT6a (rooms) and fiber (just a
single place is enough, I think).
Personally I think the code is wrong, because the ethernet ports are
next to power sockets at floor level, or at TV level in bedrooms in
some countries. I think it's a niche use-case that people actually use
wired ethernet to connect devices, and we shouldn't codify for
minorities. I think code should include radio design, and put ports
near lamps where radio design says AP should be, I think this would
cater to the majority need. Minority can figure out their custom
design.
The ethernet ports are used so rarely, at least in my market it is
normal to get termination delivered so wrong, you can only get 100M
out of CAT6A (all 8 wires connected). And no one in the market appears
to understand that just testing for conductivity isn't good enough or
even understand the problem when described. So consumers are happily
buying that >100M Internet, but will never get more than 100M, because
they have poor termination.
I am using after-build conduits that are running either along the outside wall of the house, or lying on the roof (I have a flat roof). I am not using any of the electrical conduits that were burned into the concrete structure at the time of build. So these are carrying only Ethernet. No power or anything else. The coax for my satellite TV service is running its own conduit, also after-build. This is what most houses do in Africa, since any house that was built with in-built coax has only occurred in the last 10 years, while satellite TV services have been around since the early 90âs. I agree. Most people rely on wi-fi to hook up their stationery devices. And then complain when all the buffering starts to occur, but letâs leave that alone for now :-). Personally, anything that does not move (TV, PS5, Apple TV, Roku, satellite STB, A/V receiver, e.t.c.) gets a cable. The only devices we run on wi-fi are the mobile ones⌠laptops, cellphones, SIP-based hard phones, iPads, IoT devices, e.t.c. At least you get termination⌠what I am seeing in some houses in my market is the actual port and its housing are installed by the developer, but there is nothing connected at the back. By the time you realize there is no wire in the wall, or un-crimped wire at the back of the port, youâve lost a day upgrading your router OS thinking it forgot how to go âport up/upâ. Mark.
The reason high voltage and low voltage arenât permitted to share a conduit is safety. Chafing/rub outs that would energize low voltage cable and devices with high voltage arenât protected against in the same way that a high voltage to high voltage short would be. Itâs a low likelihood/high consequence fault that every modern jurisdictions code memorializes.
From "Saku Ytti" <saku@ytti.fi>
To "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Cc nanog@nanog.org
Date 12/6/2024 3:31:41 AM
Subject Re: New home builders without wires
Although some folks were talking about inside structured wiring, I was trying to address lack of outside plant (provider side to DEMARC). I went down the rabbit hole trying to understand what was happening when my friend first told me about buying in a neighborhood with no telephone or cable. It seemed strange to me, but apparently not strange.
One thing both realtors and builders agree -- they hate ALL communication service providers (cable/telco/cellular).
Realtors and builders can't get accurate service information from communication utilities, which is a huge problem building and selling homes. Utility hired subcontractors don't show up on time when a builder has the utility trenches open, or they show up months/years afterwards.
Damage things digging up utility right-of-ways, that the developer has to repair. Realtors don't include broadband availability in their MLS because information from service providers about a specific address is often wrong.
While broadband access & cellular reception is not in the top 10 list
people want buying a house (kitchen, location, etc), lack of broadband availability and poor cellular reception is in the top 10 reasons for "failure to close" on a house (financing/mortgage, inspection/apprasal, title problems). Even if broadband availabilty is not an explicit contingency, according to realtors, buyers will try to refuse to close.
Current FCC broadband definition 100 Mbps down/20 Mbps up
Cable 134.4 million households (82%)
DSL 7 million households (4%)
Fiber 74.9 million households(46%)
Fixed wireless 77.3 million households (47%)
Satellite 162.8 million households (99%)
DSL 25Mbps/3Mbps may be a wired option in rural areas, but doesn't qualify as "broadband" under the new FCC definition.
Cable or fiber 1G/100 Mbps is available in about 51% of housing units (mostly cities).
As always, these are "up to" data rates -- not the guaranteed data rate.
Utility hired subcontractors don't show up on time when a
builder has the utility trenches open, or they show up months/years
afterwards. Damage things digging up utility right-of-ways, that the
developer has to repair.
A friend was involved in a development project in a regional town. They
specified conduits everywhere. When the network people showed up at
some random later date, they mostly just had to pull stuff through
existing conduits. Not sure of the details beyond that, but he reckoned
it cost a lot less that doing it all later.
Cable 134.4 million households (82%)
DSL 7 million households (4%)
Fiber 74.9 million households(46%)
Fixed wireless 77.3 million households (47%)
Satellite 162.8 million households (99%)
What are the percentages?
Regards, K.
Thankfully, the market is slowly realizing that you wire wired devices for reliability and performance.
A friend was involved in a development project in a regional town. They
specified conduits everywhere. When the network people showed up at
some random later date, they mostly just had to pull stuff through
existing conduits. Not sure of the details beyond that, but he reckoned
it cost a lot less that doing it all later.
I'm not a real estate developer. I do not understand the reasoning.
Its not a technical problem, its a business problem. The business incentives are messed up. One builder told me their margin on new houses is about 15%. They try to optimize out any costs not required. Spending money, so communication companies can save money later doesn't pay the developer's bills now.
Some states have "dig once" rules requiring spare conduit or coordinated scheduling by utlities. But even "dig once" rules only apply to public roads, not private residential roads. Meanwhile wireless is free, from the developer's point of view.
I know, folks outside the United States are shaking their heads. Other countries have very detailed requirements for public infrastructure serving new construction, including broadband access.
Cable 134.4 million households (82%)
DSL 7 million households (4%)
Fiber 74.9 million households(46%)
Fixed wireless 77.3 million households (47%)
Satellite 162.8 million households (99%)
What are the percentages?
Percentage of service addresses in USA ("passed" or "served") by each type of broadband technology, according to FCC data -- about 163 million address total.
There are about 210 million addresses in the USA (including institutional, alias and virtual addresses)
US Census count of housing units -- 147 M
USPS count of delivery addresses -- 154 M residential, 12.6 M commercial
When my wife and I were preparing to build our house a few years ago, solid terrestrial connectivity was one of the top things on my must-have list, because we both work from home the vast majority of the time.
It took some tenacity with the local FTTH provider to determine if they served this area, because weâre in a very tiny portion of a ZIP code thatâs fed from a different wire center than most of the rest of the municipality, but ultimately, I persevered 
Before I found out they already had fiber in the ground, I went through the exercise of pricing out a fiber build from another provider in the area. That conversation ended when I found out that the roughly 1 km of lateral build and construction into the new house would cost us $27k.
We were also very fortunate that the builder provided two 2" Schedule 40 conduits from the side of our house out to the utility hand-holes in the right-of-way, in addition to the conduit for the electrical service. It made getting the fiber into the house very easy.
One mile further east, and we wouldâve been stuck with the local cable provider.
Thank you
jms
That seems about right â $70k per mile for main-line in a relatively rural area is what weâre looking at right now. Depends on a lot of things (directional boring vs direct plow, etc).
Send that builder a fruit basket. That's behavior we need to encourage.
--TimH