Network visibility

Hi there,

I’m interested in what you good folks do in terms of network visibility.

My interests are around Service Provider space - visibility for IPoE, PPPoE, TCP(User Experience).

I use a product called “VoIPmonitor” for all things VoIP - and it is one of my favourite tools. It is a web gui for sip/rtp/etc.

Is there a similar tool in the Ethernet(L2)/IP(L3) space?

Are operators using tcpdump/wireshark for this - or is there a voipmonitor-esque tool out there?

Cheers,
Nathaniel

It's 2021, and more than 40 years of the Internet, we still can't walk into a shop and buy an NMS that just works :-).

Oddly, I was searching for a good system to manage subscriber management on our end (Broadband), and we eventually landed on Splynx.

So not sure if you want to see things on the wire (Layer 1 - 4), or if you are interested in pretty pictures...

At any rate, you may very well need more than one system to monitor your entire network.

Mark.

Mark,

As long as we’re being pedantic, January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet, when TCP/IP first let different kinds of computers on different networks talk to each other.

It’s 2021, hence the Internet is less than, not more than, 40 years old. Given your mathematical skills, I put no stock in your claim that we still can’t “buy an NMS that just works.” :slight_smile:

-mel

Hehehe :-)… I guess we can reliably say that the ARPANET wasn’t keen on pretty pictures, then, hehe :-)… Mark.

Mark,

Before 1983, the ARPANET wasn’t an internet, let alone The Internet. Each ARPANET connection required a host-specific interface (the “IMP”) and simplex Network Control Protocol (NCP). NCP used users’ email addresses, and routing had to be specified in advance within each NCP message.

Even so, the Internet as a platform open to anyone didn’t start until 1992. I know you joined late, in 1999, so you probably missed out on this history. :slight_smile:

-mel

Mark,

Before 1983, the ARPANET wasn’t an internet, let alone The Internet. Each ARPANET connection required a host-specific interface (the “IMP”) and simplex Network Control Protocol (NCP). NCP used users' email addresses, and routing had to be specified in advance within each NCP message.

I do know all of this, mate... I was just being dramatically facetious

My point being that considering how long TCP/IP has been around, the best monitoring we have gotten, even today, doesn't work out-of-the-box. So a single solution is likely impractical, even with the best of intentions, and none of the massaging.

Even so, the Internet as a platform open to anyone didn’t start until 1992. I know you joined late, in 1999, so you probably missed out on this history. :slight_smile:

1995, actually. But that's not important...

Mark.

I’ve used many commercial NMS platforms. I’ve yet to find one that doesn’t work “out of the box”. Unless by “out of the box” you mean “clairvoyantly configured”.

Please identify the ones you think fail your test.

-mel via cell

Mark,

As long as we’re being pedantic, January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet, when TCP/IP first let different kinds of computers on different networks talk to each other.

January 1, 1983 is actually not that… TCP/IP was running in many locations prior to that date.

January 1, 1983 was the day that support for the NCP based internet prior to TCP/IP implementation ended.

Further, NCP had actually allowed different kinds of computers on different networks to talk to each other, as had UUCP.

It’s 2021, hence the Internet is less than, not more than, 40 years old. Given your mathematical skills, I put no stock in your claim that we still can’t “buy an NMS that just works.” :slight_smile:

No, not really. The Internet is older than the death of NCP, which is the day you are referring to as the birthday of the internet.

Owen

Have you always used an NMS that you've never had to have the vendor (or community) tweak in a manner that was mostly unique to your operation?

If not, you're a very lucky man...

Mark.

Owen,

LOL! Yeah, and in 1838 Samuel Morse’s telegraph system used electric impulses to transmit encoded messages over a wire to Speedwell Iron Works in Morristown, New Jersey. Was that the Internet?

Sorry, not buying your supposed argument. People experimenting with TCP/IP doesn’t an Internet make.

“January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet. "
https://www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/unit07/internet07_02.phtml

-mel

Mark,

I haven’t. With SNMP and other standards, and most NMS’ having extensible interfaces, such tinkaing is rare. It certainly doesn’t rise to the level of “never works out of the box.”

-mel

Pedantically, IP is 40 years old as of last month. What you're talking about is the flag day. People including myself were looking into internet protocols well before the flag day.

Mike

Nope. And it wasn't even the first digital encoding of text. Braille preceded it, and arguably semaphore.

Michael,

“Looking into” isn’t “is” :slight_smile:

-mel

Jay Hennigan wrote:

Not the least of reasons for this: Redundancy. We have more than 1 tool doing every job, incase there’s a bug with something someday, or some platform reboots during a hurricane, etc. 2 is 1 and 1 is none and -48VDC power is still the best.

Happy Birthday Internet <3

—L.B.

Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
CEO
lb@6by7.net
"The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.”
FCC License KJ6FJJ

Since we seem to be getting pedantic...

There's "The (capital I) Internet" - which, most date to the flag day, and the "Public Internet" (the Internet after policies changed and allowed commercial & public use over the NSFnet backbone - in 1992f, as I recall).

Then there's the more general notion of "internetworking" - of which there was a considerable amount of experimental work going on, in parallel with TCP/IP. And of (small i) "internets" - essentially any Catenet style network-of-networks.

Miles Fidelman

Mel Beckman wrote:

Oh and I remember the day we first got mosaic and I thought “why would I need pictures on the internet?”

:blush:

I think the issuing of rfc 791 was much more important than the flag day. ARPAnet was a tiny, tiny universe but there were a lot of people interested in networking at the time wondering what to do with our neat new DEUNA and DEQNA adapters. There was tons of interest in all of the various protocols coming out around then because nobody knew what was going to win, or whether there would be a winner at all. Being able to get a spec to write to was pretty novel at the time because all of the rest of them were proprietary so you had to reverse engineer them for the most part. It may be that alone that pushed IP along well before the public could hook up to the Internet. We had lots of customers asking for IP protocols in the mid to late 80’s and I can guarantee you most weren’t part of the Internet. They were using IP as the interoperating system glue on their own networks.

Also: the flag day was pretty much an example of how not to do a transition. as in, let’s not do that again.

Mike, trying to remember when CMU shipped their first version of their IP stack for VMS

I don’t remember hearing about IP for VAX/VMS 2.4, but I was part of a group at Intel in 1981 looking at ARPAnet for moving designer tools and design files as an alternate to leased bandwidth from $TELCOs using DECnet and BiSync HASP. The costs of switching from 56 Kbps to ARPAnet’s 50 Kbps convinced us to wait. Clearly, private demand drove the subsequent transition as the TCP/IP stack became effectively free.

I miss DECUS, but not DELNIs.