Independent space from ARIN

Also Sprach
>>I fear you propose that he move the first 3276.8 hosts, request a
>>second block, move another 3276.8 hosts, request a third block, etc.
>>until he's got a dozen new allocations which can't be aggregated.
>>Perhaps this explains the explosive growth in the routing tables since
>>ARIN took over.

>Well, the /20 is merely part of the initial allocation guidelines of

Yes...following policy over common sense. Exactly as I feared.

Or some would say that the policy _is_ common sense. Sometimes it makes
things harder, you deal with it, or in your case, you whine about it
on mailing lists.

>Yes, moving the smattering of other blocks into the /20, returning
>those to whichever provider from whence they came. Renumbering as much
>of the original /20 as possible, and then requesting additional space.

>In my experience, at having renumbered about a /17 of PA space into PI
>space, the process is fairly painless outside of customer interaction.

I'm not sure how much of your space renumbering required customer interacti=
but my estimation is that fully 90% of the space in question here would
have required customer interaction to renumber. While I wouldn't be
surprised that many initial allocations are very inefficiently used,
that wasn't the case here...and isn't that the whole *point* of the
justification information that we have to give to ARIN to get more
space? So that they can figure out for themselves how well utilized the
space was?

A large portion of the space included customers or customer-facing

You claimyou were efficiently utilizing the space, but of course ARIN
can't defend themselves, so we are left to believe you. Even if you
_are_ telling the truth, the number of folks on this list who have stated
that they've advocated lying, or have helped people lie seems to tell me
that ARIN shouldn't believe you.

Again, we had greater than 80% utilization on *all* of our blocks...not
just the most recently allocated one, and closer to 90% on most of them. =
The documentation that we gave to ARIN in support of our request showed
this as well.

So you say.

>His error was that he expected that ARIN would just give him more space
>than what he had in PA space.

My "error" was that I expected ARIN would give me enough space to
renumber out of my current space as their documentation on their website
seems to indicate is necessary. Silly me.

So, you did absolutely nothing. This is a common problem with many on
nanog. If I can't do something 100% my ay, I'ld rather do nothing.

>This would just be silly of ARIN for several reasons:

Yeah, it would be silly of ARIN to actually abide by the documentation
that they post on their silly.

I've read their documentation. It sounds like they abided with their policies
to me.

>1) Many companies provide address space based upon policies other than
>justified use, such as based upon circuit size.

We cap the amount of address space based on circuit size, but always
require justification. All of our policies are available on our
website, and I would have been happy to share them with ARIN upon
request...I wasn't asked.

Oof, so even _you_ translate circuit size into eligibility for address space?
How stupid indeed, since circuit size has no bearing on need for
addresses (either in support or against). If I were ARIN I'ld
definately look at your documentation with a close eye.

>2) Many initial allocations are used very inefficiently, with lots of
>holes, networks larger than needed, etc.

Which, as I said, is the whole point of the justification paperwork.
We, actually, went back and re-engineered and re-numbered within the
space that we had from upstream, for several years to increase our
efficiency of our usage. Yes, we originally had some situations where
we had 3 routers on a network with a /24...but by the time we made a
request for space from ARIN, those inefficiencies were *LONG* gone.

Well, good for you. However, if you think you can do this once
and be done, you are sorely misinformed.

In any event, it all comes down to:
you had the opportunity to begin readdressing. You failed to do so
on anything but your own terms. Now you (presumably) still have not
readdressed and are still whining about it.

This thread has sapped too much of my time, and the brain cells of
the community. Hopefully you'll just go and renumber and quit
your bitching.