I thought ARIN was a not-for-profit organization. Like a co-op.
I want a cut as I am an ARIN member. 
- Brian J.
Thus spake "Bill Woodcock" <woody@pch.net>
> That's why RIRs lease addresses to you, not sell them -- they get
> to keep collecting money forever even if they do no additional work.RIRs _allocate_ addresses, meaning that they provide the _service_ of
_registering uniqueness_. You pay a _membership fee_ to support the
ongoing operation of the registry, and allow it to continue providing you
with the _service of uniqueness_ for your addresses.You don't buy them, you don't lease them. You buy the service of the
RIR's maintenance of a database which ensures unique allocations.
When I buy real estate, I don't have to pay yearly fees to the county clerk
to keep my title "unique", nor does the clerk charge me a different fee
based on the size of the parcel. They are solely concerned with the number
of parcels I own and making sure nobody else claims them too. This is an
accepted fee structure for a "service of uniqueness".
If ARIN were truly a registry, they would charge by the prefix, not by the
address, and said fees would only be incurred when a change was made.
ARIN's fee structure clearly has far more in common with a landlord than
with a title clerk. If it walks and talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
I thought ARIN was a not-for-profit organization. Like a co-op.
Yes, it is. You notice, there's no dividend or disbursement of profits in
that budget.
> I want a cut as I am an ARIN member. 
Feel free to declare a special assessment on yourself and distribute it as
you see fit.
-Bill
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
When I buy real estate, I don't have to pay yearly fees to the county clerk
to keep my title "unique", nor does the clerk charge me a different fee
based on the size of the parcel.
Wow.... there is no property tax where you live? Hook me up dude!
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
If ARIN were truly a registry, they would charge by the prefix, not
by the address, and said fees would only be incurred when a change
was made. ARIN's fee structure clearly has far more in common with a
landlord than with a title clerk. If it walks and talks like a duck,
it's probably a duck.
We are having this issue with RIPE in the EU, where fees increased by 50%
last year - with no justification other than 'we need it'. So, unlike the
rest of the IT universe, making cut backs and economising, they are
continuing to support their own gravy train in the hope that their
membership doesn't notice. I think the 50% increase was noticed; now all we
have to do is get to the (not co-located with any other practical meeting in
an obscure location) AGM where budgets are voted on.
Peter
Bill Woodcock wrote:
Thats not _that_ large a turnover, $6m, and $2.3m for salaries isnt that big.
Altho I wonder what the $1m of fringe benefits are!
Not for profit simply means the company keeps hold of any profits it makes and
reinvests/reduces fees as a result. It doesnt stop you paying senior staff large
salaries tho as thats wages overhead not profit...
Steve
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:43:39 +0100 (BST)
From: Stephen J. Wilcox
Thats not _that_ large a turnover, $6m, and $2.3m for
salaries isnt that big. Altho I wonder what the $1m of
fringe benefits are!
Not for profit simply means the company keeps hold of any
profits it makes and reinvests/reduces fees as a result. It
doesnt stop you paying senior staff large salaries tho as
thats wages overhead not profit...
How true... many not-for-profit and non-profit organizations have
some very cherry financials, and are sitting much prettier than
many for-profit entities.
I have an idea:
Perhaps ARIN needs to explain each dollar in/out with the same
amount of detail and scrutiny involved with IP allocations. All
money spent needs to be extremely well documented; summaries are
insufficient. Show actual receipts, reports explaining the
necessity of the expenditures, and proof that the expenditures
were the most efficient choices.
It seems many are curious about fringe benefits. That makes as
good of a starting point as any. "ICANN support" and "other
Internet support" also look interesting.
Because ARIN is to serve the Internet community, perhaps it
should be controlled by such, with Internet-community reps voting
on each ARIN expenditure. One representative per ASN? Per
netblock? Per IP address would be the worst approach, with those
holding unjustified /8 blocks getting unfair voting clout.
Domain registration service improved when a few competitors came
to town. That also is a { uniqueness & authority delegation }
service. Parallels? I think so...
Eddy
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:43:39 +0100 (BST)
> From: Stephen J. Wilcox> Thats not _that_ large a turnover, $6m, and $2.3m for
> salaries isnt that big. Altho I wonder what the $1m of
> fringe benefits are!> Not for profit simply means the company keeps hold of any
> profits it makes and reinvests/reduces fees as a result. It
> doesnt stop you paying senior staff large salaries tho as
> thats wages overhead not profit...How true... many not-for-profit and non-profit organizations have
some very cherry financials, and are sitting much prettier than
many for-profit entities.I have an idea:
Perhaps ARIN needs to explain each dollar in/out with the same
amount of detail and scrutiny involved with IP allocations. All
money spent needs to be extremely well documented; summaries are
insufficient. Show actual receipts, reports explaining the
necessity of the expenditures, and proof that the expenditures
were the most efficient choices.
LOL, a "wages request template" that must be approved by members before you can
have your months salary...
"Sorry Mr ARIN-Employee, you must give us a detailed breakdown of exactly what
you were doing for every minute of last month before we can approve this
request. Its not our problem if yuo need this money to eat, you must follow
procedures"
Steve
Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> If ARIN were truly a registry, they would charge by the prefix, not
> by the address, and said fees would only be incurred when a change
> was made. ARIN's fee structure clearly has far more in common with a
> landlord than with a title clerk. If it walks and talks like a duck,
> it's probably a duck.We are having this issue with RIPE in the EU, where fees increased by 50%
last year - with no justification other than 'we need it'. So, unlike the
Not fair. This discussion thread was already answered by Daniel Bovio to which you were a part of:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/lir-wg/2002/msg00288.html
Stating "no justification" basically ignores Daniel's valid comments.
-Hank
I've seen places that have "salary" in one category, and "fringe
benefits" is everything else - employer contributions to medical insurance,
retirement plans, Social Security, workmen's comp insurance, and so on.
How (or even whether) it adds up to 40% of salary I admit to not knowing.
Thus spake <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>
I've seen places that have "salary" in one category, and "fringe
benefits" is everything else - employer contributions to medical
insurance, retirement plans, Social Security, workmen's comp
insurance, and so on.How (or even whether) it adds up to 40% of salary I admit to not
knowing.
It's commonly accepted among HR types that benefits for a full-time employee
cost 30% to 60% of their salary, depending on how generous the benefits are
and whether the company can get volume discounts. ARIN's numbers seem
consistent with standard practice.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Hank Nussbacher wrote:
Not fair. This discussion thread was already answered by Daniel
Bovio to which you were a part of:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/lir-wg/2002/msg00288.htmlStating "no justification" basically ignores Daniel's valid comments.
I still state 'no justification'. I will go further and say 'no HONEST
justification'. All I got were excuses that boiled down to 'we need to keep
everyone employed'. The downturn of the ISP business has resulted in
everyone cutting costs - except the quangos like RIPE, and by the sound of
it ARIN too.
These organisation rely on their 'membership' being too busy with their own
problems and most pulling in different directions to have any real threat to
their comfortable and protected existence. I do not believe this is right in
the RIPE case, and by the cound of it in the ARIN case either.
I will try as hard as I can - given my own commercial and time pressures -
to take some action at this years RIPE AGM. That is if it isn't held in a
locked filing cabinet in a disused toilet marked 'Beware of the Leopard'.
Again.
Peter