Digex transparent proxying

So Karl, you don't like the fact that your customers are maximising
distribution of their visual advertising while minimizing their costs
(by not paying you for some audience reached through caches), I guess.

Brand management people generally only care that a vast number of
people associate their brand with some appropriate set of feelings,
and that this in turn leads to sales.

The cost effectiveness of this approach does not have to be measured
directly (by thorough counting or extrapolating from a sample) when
other means of testing the effectiveness of a PR/marketing campaign
are available.

Your analyses of cache effectiveness is also flawed because
it is looking at merely the question of ratio of cache hits
to misses, and supposing that misses are inherently inefficient.

An intercepting proxy which runs a modern TCP stack and which
avoids the "herds of mice" problem by aggregating multiple
parallel connections into single ones, and which is well-located
to avoid frequent fifo tail-drop at the last hop, has a benefit
to the ISP that outweighs the cache hit:miss ratio.

That is, a cache which imposes decent long-haul TCP behaviour
reduces the number of packets which are delivered all the way
from the web server to the terminal server but tail-dropped there
rather than being delivered to the end user.

Where content's effectiveness can be measured by means
other than direct counting of "views", _or_ where an intercepting
cache reduces the number of retransmissions, or both, this sort of
caching is *great* for your customers, because it means they
can pay you less, because you ship fewer bits.

So I can see why you are so pissed off.

  Sean.

Oh, I forgot - being stupid and twisting people's words is now considered
a protected class in the United States.

- --
Sean Doran
Copenhagen, Denmark

So Karl, you don't like the fact that your customers are maximising
distribution of their visual advertising while minimizing their costs
(by not paying you for some audience reached through caches), I guess.

Excuse me?

Brand management people generally only care that a vast number of
people associate their brand with some appropriate set of feelings,
and that this in turn leads to sales.

And how do advertisers measure this? By eyeballs (or eardrums, for audio
media) reached. Deal with reality Sean, not your fantasies.

The cost effectiveness of this approach does not have to be measured
directly (by thorough counting or extrapolating from a sample) when
other means of testing the effectiveness of a PR/marketing campaign
are available.

You're in dreamland Sean, not that this is unusual. Again, you are missing
the point, which is what is ACTUALLY done, not your fantasy-land of how
you'd like to see people measure effectiveness (and set pricing).

Where content's effectiveness can be measured by means
other than direct counting of "views", _or_ where an intercepting
cache reduces the number of retransmissions, or both, this sort of
caching is *great* for your customers, because it means they
can pay you less, because you ship fewer bits.

So I can see why you are so pissed off.

Considering that MCSNet doesn't at present sell (nor has it ever sold) a
single bandwidth-sensitive service (ie: no burstable rate circuits with a
variable cost component, no traffic-sensitive web hosting, etc) you're
once again full of shit.

If there is an ISP out there which would find financial advantage to this
paradigm of operation ("transparent" caching), its MCSNet.

That I would find doing so financially rewarding does NOT justify hijacking
a customer's packet traffic and passing it through a "filter" of my own
design and without that customer's consent.

The difference is that I have ethics and deliver what this company sells,
not some jiggered version that we claim to be "functionally equivalent" but
really isn't.

  Sean.

> Oh, I forgot - being stupid and twisting people's words is now considered
> a protected class in the United States.

- --
Sean Doran
Copenhagen, Denmark

You STILL need to take that Lithium pill Sean.

So Karl, you don't like the fact that your customers are maximising
distribution of their visual advertising while minimizing their costs
(by not paying you for some audience reached through caches), I guess.

How, pray tell, are they maximizing their distro and for what? They way I
understand it, they proxy-cache digex has set up optimizes for html, but
screws everything else. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

FYI, 80 to 90 percent of our served traffic is SSH encrypted, or SSL with
nil TTLs.

Brand management people generally only care that a vast number of
people associate their brand with some appropriate set of feelings,
and that this in turn leads to sales.

So what does branding have to do with this?

The cost effectiveness of this approach does not have to be measured
directly (by thorough counting or extrapolating from a sample) when
other means of testing the effectiveness of a PR/marketing campaign
are available.

Pah, what does this have to do with the fact that digex has an unannounced
filter on their *paying* customers traffic? Customers whom, contractually,
are expecting a raw feed? If digex wants to optimize luser traffic then
they should split their data-stream into "raw" and "filtered". Otherwise,
they're in breach of contract and should check that their legal retainers
are paid up, they're going to need their attorney's services soon.

Your analyses of cache effectiveness is also flawed because
it is looking at merely the question of ratio of cache hits
to misses, and supposing that misses are inherently inefficient.

Caching is fine for non-transient data. I have yet to see either an SSL or
SSH stream meet these requirements. With privacy issues coming to the
fore-front, a transient domain is much more likely to encounter these types
of streams.

An intercepting proxy which runs a modern TCP stack and which
avoids the "herds of mice" problem by aggregating multiple
parallel connections into single ones, and which is well-located
to avoid frequent fifo tail-drop at the last hop, has a benefit
to the ISP that outweighs the cache hit:miss ratio.

That is, a cache which imposes decent long-haul TCP behaviour
reduces the number of packets which are delivered all the way
from the web server to the terminal server but tail-dropped there
rather than being delivered to the end user.

Where content's effectiveness can be measured by means
other than direct counting of "views", _or_ where an intercepting
cache reduces the number of retransmissions, or both, this sort of
caching is *great* for your customers, because it means they
can pay you less, because you ship fewer bits.

Got news for you, we don't charge, nor are we charged, per volume. Both
ends buy a fixed size pipe, at flat-rate. It is the only way we'll do
business. Our CEO said so.

So I can see why you are so pissed off.

Sean.

Oh, I forgot - being stupid and twisting people's words is now considered
a protected class in the United States.

They way your talking, you must only know how to server HTML. I suppose
that you also think that WinNTserver is the only operating system? Got news
for you, traffic analysis around here says otherwise. HTML isn't even a
large minority and 100% of our server-to-server connections are between
Unix-class boxen. Only workstations run WinNT and some of them are *nix
stations as well. Yes, we allow X traffic through our pipes, but wrapped in
SSH session traffic.

So you see, your traffic characterization model is flawed. So, apparently
is digex's.

How, pray tell, are they maximizing their distro and what? They way I
understand it, they proxy-cache digex has set up optimizes for html, but
screws everything else. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Hmmm - you're wrong... the only traffic that would be diverted to this
cache is port 80 - if they are using an alteon switch then the alteon
makes a decision to redirect port 80 traffic ONLY to the port that the
cache is connected to.

FYI, 80 to 90 percent of our served traffic is SSH encrypted, or SSL with
nil TTLs.

Differnt port...

Caching is fine for non-transient data. I have yet to see either an SSL or
SSH stream meet these requirements. With privacy issues coming to the
fore-front, a transient domain is much more likely to encounter these types
of streams.

Not effected...

How, pray tell, are they maximizing their distro and what? They way I
understand it, they proxy-cache digex has set up optimizes for html, but
screws everything else. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Hmmm - you're wrong... the only traffic that would be diverted to this
cache is port 80 - if they are using an alteon switch then the alteon
makes a decision to redirect port 80 traffic ONLY to the port that the
cache is connected to.

Thank you. So if I provide my links on a different port then I by-pass the
proxy, cute. However, many of my customers have some ferocious firewalls
that only allow port 80. Of course those machines are running their apache
somewhere else. But, I use port 80 to run an SSH tunnel to them.