So, the US Government wants to classify Sean Gorman's student project.
The question is did Mr. Gorman's maps divulge the vulnerability in the
East Coast power grid that resulted in the blackouts this week?
Would it be better to know about these vulnerabilities, and do something
about them; or is it better to keep them secret until they fail in a
catastrophic way?
Please correct me if I misunderstand this, but I have a different take on
all of this. Power Cos. have for some time traded power in a futures
market system. Org A buys x gigawatts at an attractive price to be
delivered at a specific time in the future from Org B, via the grid. Org C is facing a
brown/blackout today so they are highly motivated to pay any price; Org
A's contract terms with Org B fit Org C's needs so Org A makes a killing.
Given that the players were producers, buyers and sellers of the same
product this creates no incentaive to build out additional capasity. Quite
different from say, Hog futures, were the supply side and demand side are
not the same person. According the the NPR report I heard on this, the money to be made
here is huge provided there was just enough power or not quite enough. So
there were not market checks and ballances. having additional capasity on
hand, in this system, drives down price in a futures market.
So back on Sean's question, maps did not divulge this; at least not the
primary cause. I see the primary cause as economic. It seems to me
we are seeking a mechanical cause instead of looking at the fauly business
model that allowed this to happen.
Org A makes a killing. Given that the players were producers, buyers
and sellers of the same product this creates no incentaive to build out
additional capasity. Quite different from say, Hog futures, were the
supply side and demand side are not the same person. According the the
NPR report I heard on this, the money to be made here is huge provided
there was just enough power or not quite enough. So there were not
market checks and ballances. having additional capasity on hand, in
this system, drives down price in a futures market.
Capacity isn't the problem. The problem is that there aren't enough lines
between the providers and consumers to carry the current volume.
So back on Sean's question, maps did not divulge this; at least not the
primary cause. I see the primary cause as economic. It seems to me we
are seeking a mechanical cause instead of looking at the fauly business
model that allowed this to happen.
No sorry. The grid is a national problem and has been stabbed at several
times, but different special interests always move to keep the necessary
work from being done.
LULU -- Locally Undesirable Land Use
NIMBY -- Not In My Backyard
BANANA -- Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone
NOPE -- Nowhere on Planet Earth
Another more-recent camp are those who see everything as a move by The Man
and Mr. Big which must be stopped.
A measured response is needed. Obviosly we do not want the
vulnerabilities disclosed to bored teenagers looking for "excitement".
We need controlled access to this data so that those of us who need the
data to fix vulnerabilities can gain access to it but access is denied to
people without a legitimate need for the data.
The "Dig Safe" program might be a good model for controlling access to
Sean's work. This would not preclude further scholarship on Sean's work
but it would keep the data out of the hands of the 31337 crowd.
Scott C. McGrath
Hello Scott ,
A measured response is needed. Obviosly we do not want the
vulnerabilities disclosed to bored teenagers looking for "excitement".
We need controlled access to this data so that those of us who need the
data to fix vulnerabilities can gain access to it but access is denied to
people without a legitimate need for the data.
And my statement would be , And who is that authority ?
The government ? The Utilities ? The ... ?
The "Dig Safe" program might be a good model for controlling access to
Sean's work. This would not preclude further scholarship on Sean's work
but it would keep the data out of the hands of the 31337 crowd.
Huh ?, Try this on for size , "Hello , I am joe's contracting
service & I have a building permit(I do) and I need to dig at ..."
If I remeber correctly the "Dig Safe" program will give me the
info without so much as a check on the permit or my company name .
But , Something (may) need to be put in place . I for one am not
a great fan of any group of "X" that has a vested interest in
keeping the information out of the public hands as being the ones
to administer or setup or even give suggestions to a body who'd be
involved in setting up such a commitee/org./...
I'd really like to see a "Public" forum be used to take
suggestions from the PUBLIC (ie: you & I & that neighbor you hate
so well) for the guide lines as to who &/or when such info s/b
released . Not the Gov. or the Util Alone .
Remember that Dig Safe is implemented on a state by state basis some of
the programs like the one you describe are dreadful. The one in my home
state is fairly thorough in checking bona fides before providing the data
I believe in setting a fairly low bar for access to this information i.e.
can you _prove_ that you have legitimate cause for access to this
information. The proof would be do you have
fiber/conduit/circuits/pipelines these all have identifiers which can be
checked and generally only the customer and the service provider has this
information. Not simply whose fibers are in the conduit attached to the
railroad bridge. if you own one of those fibers you get access to the
information on who else is in the conduit. if you do not you are not
privvy to the information.
We had a incident where someone accidentally started a fire under a bridge
and burned through a PVC conduit knocking phone and data out for the
better part of a week for 100,000+ lines. I really do not want that type
of information in the hands of a bored teenager so they would be able
identify potential targets so that they can be _famous_.
Remember when you go to a library to study rare manuscripts you generally
need to prove to the curator that you have a legitimate scholarly interest
in the documents not simply random curiousity.
Scott C. McGrath
That's because those old manuscripts are fragile, not because they think
the information should stay secret.
If you want to live in a world where this type of information needs to
be hidden, go ahead and finish your totalitarian state. The US isn't far
off anyway.
Paul
Information should be free. This however assumes that people will be
_responsible_ for what is done with the information.
On Manuel and Jose - with a valid permit number they get the information
if Bubba and Joe do not have a _valid_ permit number they do not get the
information because in the absence of legitimate need for this information
they probably should not have it
Try going to a presidential library and trying to access the information
there you still need a legitimate scholarly interest to access any of the
information deemed _sensitive_ by the curator. In most of these cases the
documents are available on microfilm or digitally so fragility has noting
to do with the access restrictions on the document but harm to the
subject of the documents does play a significant role in what information
is released to the general public and what is restricted to scholarly
interests.
I want to live in a world where information can be free however this a
utopian ideal which does not work in the _real_ world. We as a group need
to create a system which allows access to this information WITHOUT
resorting to having GOVERNMENT control access to the information. BUT we
also need to ensure that the information is used responsibly. Having
"secrets" benefits no one except the keeper of the secrets.
Scott C. McGrath
> The "Dig Safe" program might be a good model for controlling access to
> Sean's work. This would not preclude further scholarship on Sean's work
> but it would keep the data out of the hands of the 31337 crowd.
Huh ?, Try this on for size , "Hello , I am joe's contracting
service & I have a building permit(I do) and I need to dig at ..."
If I remeber correctly the "Dig Safe" program will give me the
info without so much as a check on the permit or my company name .
This is not really correct. They wont tell you over the phone. Rather a
survey company will show up and *mark* the locations where you cannot dig.
The funny part is that they check only first 6 ft i.e. if your conduit is at
the 6.5', touch luck 
Alex
> > The "Dig Safe" program might be a good model for controlling access to
> > Sean's work. This would not preclude further scholarship on Sean's work
> > but it would keep the data out of the hands of the 31337 crowd.
> Huh ?, Try this on for size , "Hello , I am joe's contracting
> service & I have a building permit(I do) and I need to dig at ..."
> If I remeber correctly the "Dig Safe" program will give me the
> info without so much as a check on the permit or my company name .This is not really correct. They wont tell you over the phone.
I should probably correct this from "wont" to "should not".
The reason for that is that if one does not call call before dig, one would
be liable. If one does call and misunderstands, the survey company would be
liable. So those companies prefer to leave very clear marks.
Alex
The way it works in California is that the digger marks the work area
in white paint and submits the location to the USA hotline. The hotline
distributes this to all of the utilities, which then mark the location of
their underground facilities, color coded (Blue - water, Red - power,
Orange - telco/cable, Yellow - gas). The digger must will take care not
to damage anything marked.
And what would you or the public holding these maps do about them? I
have a better plan, instead of releasing it to the public, release it
to these ignorant bandwagon activists so they can scream and shout
about how these 'dangerous' things are too close to people. That will
solve the problem of sending us back to the stone age by uprooting
current 'dangerous' facilities (oh say, like INDIAN POINT or something
just as useful), or there's always terrorists willing to pay for these
maps.
--snip--
The North American Energy Reliability Council, or NERC, which is
charged with assessing the dependability of the electric grid system,
has pointed to a section of the loop in Ohio as the likely point of
origin for Thursday's blackout.
``That's the center of the focus,'' NERC chief Michehl Gent said.
``This has been a problem for years and there have been all sorts of
plans to make it more reliable.''
--snip--
Oh wait...someone was already doing something about it behind the
scenes, but naaaaah, their work is meaningless because since I've
never heard anything about this (perhaps because I DON'T WORK FOR A
POWER GENERATING ORGANIZATION OR RELIABILITY COUNCIL) let's release
the map to some couple million unqualified individuals so they can
scrutinize it and offer no reasonable or primarily negative input.
Have a happy angst-filled low-voltage day.