Dealing with ARIN.. my experiences & tips

Mailman List Mirror (Read Only)
1

More importantly, a quick study in logic shows there should be no
requirement for the existing space to meet RFC2050 requirements -- the space
is already allocated. After the renumbering period there's no net damage to
the IPv4 "shortage" since similar amounts of space would be assigned, but it
would be a great help to the global routing system.

The problem is that PA space is questionable. As you stated, if the only way
to do something one wants to do is to lie/cheat/steal/kill, many people
will do it.

Some of the "P" in the PA will break the rules in order to drive sales.
So, the inherent assumption that a provider is already compliant is
not a given, which strikes down the argument.

I'ld advocate for mandatory compliance checking on each allocation
request or biannually, whichever is more frequent. Of course,
I'ld also advocate that it a provider is below 25% usage, that they
have address space rescinded, including blocks not presently assigned
to any RIR. If an entity can not be contacted for 2 compliance
periods (for example, a swamp /24 to some long-dead company) that they
be considered defunct, and the space rescinded.

But, then again, I'm fairly liberal. I'm sure the more conservative
among us (and those hanging onto former customer /24s, /8s, etc)
would absolutely hate this, since they are getting something for nothing
and don't like having to play by the same rules as the rest of us.

2

> More importantly, a quick study in logic shows there should be no
> requirement for the existing space to meet RFC2050 requirements -- the space
> is already allocated. After the renumbering period there's no net damage to
> the IPv4 "shortage" since similar amounts of space would be assigned, but it
> would be a great help to the global routing system.

The problem is that PA space is questionable. As you stated, if the only way
to do something one wants to do is to lie/cheat/steal/kill, many people
will do it.

Can you quote an example of someone who was killed in the name of PA space?

Some of the "P" in the PA will break the rules in order to drive sales.
So, the inherent assumption that a provider is already compliant is
not a given, which strikes down the argument.

I'ld advocate for mandatory compliance checking on each allocation
request or biannually, whichever is more frequent. Of course,
I'ld also advocate that it a provider is below 25% usage, that they
have address space rescinded, including blocks not presently assigned

even where over-allocation is concerned you cant seriously expect folks to
renumber in order to give space back. renumbering has to be a no-no.

to any RIR. If an entity can not be contacted for 2 compliance
periods (for example, a swamp /24 to some long-dead company) that they
be considered defunct, and the space rescinded.

i assume dead space is recovered anyway? surely the provider isnt providing
space and services to a company that is dead and not paying bills?

But, then again, I'm fairly liberal. I'm sure the more conservative

liberal compared to stalin maybe ;p

among us (and those hanging onto former customer /24s, /8s, etc)
would absolutely hate this, since they are getting something for nothing
and don't like having to play by the same rules as the rest of us.

you have a slightly different point here, i agree. theres a number of legacy /8s
out there, they need fixing. i dont have any answers tho!

Steve

3

:
: > > More importantly, a quick study in logic shows there should be no
: > > requirement for the existing space to meet RFC2050 requirements -- the space
: > > is already allocated. After the renumbering period there's no net damage to
: > > the IPv4 "shortage" since similar amounts of space would be assigned, but it
: > > would be a great help to the global routing system.
: >
: > The problem is that PA space is questionable. As you stated, if the only way
: > to do something one wants to do is to lie/cheat/steal/kill, many people
: > will do it.
:
: Can you quote an example of someone who was killed in the name of PA space?

I can name plenty who have done the other 3...

scott

4

[ Cc ppml, Bcc nanog ]

Thus spake <bdragon@gweep.net>

The problem is that PA space is questionable. As you stated, if the only
way to do something one wants to do is to lie/cheat/steal/kill, many
people will do it.

One could falsify efficiency documentation on your PI space as well; PA
space isn't inherently more susceptible to fraud.

Some of the "P" in the PA will break the rules in order to drive sales.
So, the inherent assumption that a provider is already compliant is
not a given, which strikes down the argument.

ARIN's policies rely on the assumption that all SWIPs to customers are
legitimate -- in practice if not in theory. If you are going to throw rocks
at that assumption, you're going to have to redesign the whole RIR system.

I'ld also advocate that it a provider is below 25% usage, that they
have address space rescinded, including blocks not presently assigned
to any RIR.

There is currently no precedent for revoking any allocation made by an RIR,
InterNIC, or IANA. While your intentions are probably good, the
consequences of this are so staggering you'll never get consensus.

If an entity can not be contacted for 2 compliance periods (for example,
a swamp /24 to some long-dead company) that they be considered
defunct, and the space rescinded.

Bill Manning/ISI already has been working for several years now to reclaim
unused address space.

But, then again, I'm fairly liberal. I'm sure the more conservative
among us (and those hanging onto former customer /24s, /8s, etc)
would absolutely hate this, since they are getting something for nothing
and don't like having to play by the same rules as the rest of us.

There are significant legal obstacles to recovering fees from allocations
made during the InterNIC days, and this would only be viable if we agreed
that RIRs can revoke unpaid legacy allocations.

S

Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking