Dealing with ARIN.. my experiences & tips

Just passing on my experience with ARIN and a few tips I've found to
make my life easier. I used to handle allocations for a large cable
provider, and was requesting along the lines of 1-2 /17s every three
months. Flame away if you wish, but this is what worked for me.

1) Keep records of your IP allocations and assignments (and not just
with SWIP, you need utilization numbers). I know this is a royal pain
in the rear end, and it's not always easy to do with customers. But if
you don't know how your customers are using their assigned space, you
really can't effectively plan for their future growth. They should have
to show you their projected space usage before receiving an initial
assignment. They should have to justify 80% usage to you before
receiving another assignment. In practice, I realize this isn't always
easy. But keeping records is not just for ARIN's benefit, it is for
yours as well.

I had a database that pulled the statistics per subnet. When
application time came, I put it into the pretty format that ARIN wanted
(POP - block - total IPs - used IPs - unused IPs - utilization % etc.)
and sent it in with my request. Yes, it made the size of my application
huge with two dozen POPs and scores of blocks each. Yes, it took some
time to compile, even though I was pulling from a database. But this
is the information ARIN looks at in excruciating detail. Scrimp on this,
and they will squawk. Guaranteed.

2) If you commit a 'violation', ie. one of your blocks was less than the
required utilization before assigning another, explain. If you are able
to justify, even if you simply say 'I messed up', for the most part they
will accept that. I have made mistakes in allocations, and have not
been denied additional space because of them. I just had to be very
sure I explained clearly (and up-front in the initial request !) what
the mistake was and what I was doing to fix it. In most cases, it was
simply waiting until the first allocation filled, then using the second.

3) You have to request every three months or so. I'm sorry Jeff M., but
there's really no way around this, no matter how inefficient it may
seem. Their policy is to give allocations sufficient for three months'
worth of usage, based on past growth. If your growth increases greatly,
you may need to request after two months (yes, I've done it, and I'm
sure many others have too). If you're in the midst of renumbering, and
utilization is increasing, you may have to request again after two
months, or even less. It takes time to make up the requests. It's even
more frustrating having to do it after two months instead of three. But
in the case of increased utilization, you may just have demonstrated a
need for a larger IP block. Suffer a bit, and you will eventually reap
the rewards.

Jeff, you've demonstrated that you are doing the Right Thing. Your
utilization is good and your practices seem well in-line with best
practices. ARIN will recognize this. Perhaps you don't think they do
right now, but if you were not in-line, they wouldn't have given you any
allocation at all.

4) DO NOT TRY TO BEND THEIR RULES. This should actually be Rule #1. I
made sure I put this in big, bold letters in the document I gave to my
successor. ARIN's rules are there and, unlike gravity in The Matrix,
are not meant to be broken. You can ask until your blue in the face for
six months' worth of IP space, or whatever else you like, but you won't
get it. Unfortunately this is one of those things that we all just have
to accept. They may cut you a little bit of slack to help recover from
a mistake, but that's it. Their rules are their rules. If you want to
protest them, the person who is doing your allocation isn't the right
person to protest to.

5) See Rule #4. If they give you an allocation that you don't agree
with, and they won't budge, accept it. Jeff M., I see your point that
going back to ARIN after renumbering half of the network is a tad on the
ridiculous side. Unfortunately there are times when you just have to
take your lumps and do what they want you to do. I find it unlikely
that they will deny you the second half of an allocation once you've
renumbered into the first half, demonstrated good block usage
percentage, and promised your firstborn that you'll give the original
allocation back. :slight_smile:

6) What Jon L. said was true. It does take a bit of practice in
dealing with ARIN and giving them exactly the information they need, in
the format they want it. Your first few dealings with them may result
in multiple clarification requests. Take it as a learning experience,
and be sure to include the information they ask for in the next request.

7) And finally.. ARIN are nice people. Really ! They're not big red
devils with flaming pitchforks just waiting to stab you in the hiney at
every chance they get. Work with them and they will work with you. I
actually started to *enjoy* my tri-montly interactions with them after a
while, if you can believe that. :slight_smile:

Andrea Abrahamsen
Software Engineer, Intelligent Network Services
Cisco Systems

I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously.

What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID),
and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through
innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do
a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet).

T3 goes 400 feet on coax.

Mike (meuon) Harrison wrote:

"Mike (meuon) Harrison" <meuon@highertech.net> writes:

I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously.

What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID),
and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through
innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do
a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet).

The textbook limit is 450' for 735 cable. I've had poor luck pushing
the limit, and don't know offhand if using some other flavor of 75 ohm
cable buys you anything.

Were I in your position, I'd have glass pulled and use a coax to fiber
media converter such as http://www6.adc.com/ecom/hier?NODE=OND68947,
http://www.versitron.com/DS3T3.html, or
http://www.rad-direct.com/DATASHEET/FOM-T3.pdf (the latter of which
I've used personally) on each end. No, it's not the cheap way to do
it, but it eliminates ground loops and other such nastiness that can
ruin your whole day.

                                        ---Rob

"Mike (meuon) Harrison" <meuon@highertech.net> writes:

> I need to run a DS3 across our parking lot.. Seriously.
>
> What's the max length I can use coax for (I know, gotta use a GID),
> and what's the best brand/type of coax I can use? It'll be through
> innerduct.. Looking for some real world answers from people that do
> a LOT more of this than me.. (It might take 350-400 feet).

The textbook limit is 450' for 735 cable. I've had poor luck pushing
the limit, and don't know offhand if using some other flavor of 75 ohm
cable buys you anything.

Were I in your position, I'd have glass pulled and use a coax to fiber
media converter such as http://www6.adc.com/ecom/hier?NODE=OND68947,

Or a wireless/microwave solution of course...

Steve

Just out of curiosity: Why does it have to be DS3? Could another
circuit type that can do at least 45 megs and reach at least 400
feet work?

There could be lots of reasons. Perhaps it's a TDM application or the
equipment is already bought and paid for, management doesn't want to
spend any more money than they have to, "just make it work". :wink:

735 DS-3 cable has a specification max length of 225'. 734 DS-3 cable
has a specification max length of 450'. When you use this long cable
length, the mux that is providing the DS-3 needs to have the pads
removed (or provisioned) for a long cable run.

Transition Networks (and others) make DS-3 fiber converters. They are
not cheap. This would be my preferred method as fiber (especially OSP)
is much better suited for outdoor exposure and temperature changes.

-Andy

Andy,

Thank you for bringing up fiber converters. I have a comment I was
trying to bring to the list that escaped this old man's memory.

To the best of my recollection, I have not implemented a fiber converter
that lasted more than say, 12 months. I've tried different brands with
no luck.

So, my question is, does a 'ruggedized' fiber/coax/X-baseT converter
exist?

Regards,
Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO
Broadband Laboratories, Inc.
http://www.bblabs.com

We have had a lot of luck using Transition Networks media conversion
kits to push 10/100 Fiber across large spans within our buildings..

http://www.transition.com/

I believe one of the following might work for DS3-to-fiber-and-back:

http://www.transition.com/products/mcon_platform/standalone/ds3/scscf30xx.htm

How “ruggedized” do you need…We use for some ITS/Highway Projects that work pretty well…

Spencer

Definately.

You most emphatically do NOT want copper going across your parking lot.
Besides the danger from lightning strikes and other electrostatic discharges
you run the risk of ground potentials differing significantly. You could
wind up with a significant amount of current flowing across the coax just to
balance building grounds. (This is why telcos insist on a single ground
point and have that point connected to an array of ground rods driven deep
in the ground.)

Tim

Makes sense but...

Before fiber and ADMs were so common, in the days of buried coax for
DS-3s (between COs and for the occassional large customer), coax was
obviously being used for inter-building connectivity.

How exactly did the topology differ? Besides fiber, which eliminates
the issue of ground loops and such altogether, how did the RBOCs actually deal
with this problem when they didn't have fiber in the ground?

I presume there's an element/architecture that can be used safely. Mike alluded to
a 'GID' per Sprint. Anyone have a reference/source for this device?

-jr

* Timothy R. McKee <tim@baseworx.net> [20030419 18:13]:

I presume there's an element/architecture that can be used safely. Mike alluded to
a 'GID' per Sprint. Anyone have a reference/source for this device?

As soon as I see one.. I'll post make and model.. :slight_smile:

One easy way would be to use baluns and go from 120 ohm balanced on
RJ45s in the buildings to 75 ohm coax between buildings. Or you can
probably find a supplier of 75 ohm 1::1 transformers suitable for data
traffic. Both should provide isolation and allow a floating ground.

Thus spake "Josh Richards" <jrichard@cubicle.net>

Before fiber and ADMs were so common, in the days of buried coax
for DS-3s (between COs and for the occassional large customer),
coax was obviously being used for inter-building connectivity.

How exactly did the topology differ? Besides fiber, which eliminates
the issue of ground loops and such altogether, how did the RBOCs
actually deal with this problem when they didn't have fiber in the
ground?

Look in the telco vault of any large building old enough to have POTS lines
coming in on real copper -- there'll be huge fuse panels, one fuse for each
line; same technology was used for T1 and T3 circuits as well, though
probably with different fuses. I can't specify exactly what type of fuses
or panels you would buy, as I've religiously avoided inter-building copper
myself.

Fiber good, copper bad. Move along :slight_smile:

S

Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking